Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton, following Employment Tribunal judgment - thread #62

I think we will all have to re log in soon as I think it only lasts an hour in the waiting room, then kicks you out.

From TT:

More abbreviations:
RCN witnesses - RCN W
SF - Stuart Fraser, RCN union representative,
NP - Norman Provan, Associate director at Royal College of Nursing and SF's manager
An ex-RCN employee will appear as a witness for SP

We may also use abbreviations used in the case Peggie v Fife Health Board. t.co/7MMUXJmLmz

[picture shows the dramatis personae from that case, I'm sure you have those memorised ;-) ]

Am in.

The ex-RCN employee is Lisa MacKenzie, now of MBM policy.

Hush my mouth, am in.

Around 40 people in the room.

[we're still in a break, right, as the panel hasn't arrived?]

It looks like the same room as the original case. What a throw-back. Naomi has what looks like a new, bigger tablet, as well as her laptop and extra screen.

In!
I've just scrolled back, but I can't find the person who predicted this time pretty accurately. Well done to them!

I'm in, see some familiar names, I have used a shortened version of my first name, would that be a problem, does it need to be full name? trying not to be identifiable.

You are supposed to use your name as you gave it when you applied for access.

From NIck Wallis

Proceedings have yet to start, but we've got into the courtroom. I have also received an email from the judge...

Not directly obviously! The judge has made a decision on my application... the outcome is... poor.

"EJ Sangster [that's the judge] has asked the parties whether they consent to copies of documents being provided to you electronically, in accordance with your request. One of the parties...

... has indicated that they do not consent to this. As paragraph 57 of the Presidential Guidance requires the consent of all parties and the Tribunal, and this has not been given, the position will remain as set out in the...

... Tribunal’s email sent yesterday, namely the Tribunal will not send electronic copies of documents to non-parties for inspection, but relevant documents will be...

... available for inspection at the Dundee Employment Tribunal, as per the Presidential Guidance." The refusal, I am told, came from the RCN. I will still seek to be heard in court as I would like to hear the RCN's reasons for their refusal and whether the court considers them

... reasonable, but I suspect that is a test that does not need to be met.

I won't be posting all Nick's tweets, just thought this was of interest

and the dog has decided this is the best time to bark like f*ck at the neighbours cat. can't hear now.

From TT:

The Judge is sitting by herself.

J: three acts of discrimination in claim. Revised timetable with 8 witnesses for C and 5 for R.

J: not exceed times for each W
DH: missed & difficult to hear.
J: if complaint with process in line with Presidential guidance. I have considered request - but requires consent of all parties. Write to the President.

I wonder if one of the ladies at the back of the room is an stenographer for Sandies team.

From TT:

Correction: that was Nck Wallis, journalist speaking.

NC re bundle & new papers.

First witness is Sandie Peggie & is sworn in.

She is assisting with press and media inquiries for SP's team.

From TT:

NC - A lot of material is not contested.
J - leave to you to object DH if goes beyond agreement. Have read statement of facts and those docs.

SP - member of RCN for 30 years.
J - asks everyone to speak up if softly spoken.

NC - mostly dealt with SF, NO and Gillian taitt?
SP - Yes
NC - C Aug 2023 Fife allowed Dr Upton ((DU) to use the female chnaging room.

From TT:

SP - DU stated and used female changing room. Aware he was a TW. A lot of staf were uncomfortable.
SP _ a few staff. There wasn't any consultation [b4 DU started work.]

NC - three time you encountered - first time you complained to management.
SP - aware because of general chit chat

Missed
NC - on 3rd occassion, Xmas Eve. You raised objections (explored in previous FHB hearing). Outlines what happened re complaints.

From TT:

NC - charge urse rang you and told you were being put on special leave.
SP Correct.
NC: when contact RCN,
SP - Between 30 Dec & 4 Jan
Female RCN staff member on phone would get someone appropriate to conatct me.

NC - RCN doc "Case Summary" - 24/`12/23 shed light on that date? Recd on 24/12
SP - nor at all - no complaint recd against me.
NC - you don't know exact date - date b4 whch it can't be earlier than>
SP 30 Dec . I didn't know anything abt a complaint b4 then

From TT:

SP made call myself - history and what had happened. He told me he was my RCN rep and discussed it. He told me more or less because I had asked Beth in the changng area and I shd treat it more or less as an extended holiday,

NC _ Ask him any specific questions?

SP - not specifically,

NC - short note presumably made by SF of that conversation. fair outline of what was said?
SP Yes

@nauticant There seems to be less distortion on headphones. Can't listen with speakers at all, sound is awful.

I wonder if Stuart and Norman will have the brass necks to shill for, and perform all that palaver about how the man at the centre of it all (Upton) wants to be referred to as a woman? Otherwise he’ll just simply wilt away like the likkle shrinking violet he is.

And a Judge possibly saying, ‘oh, you can’t upset a MAN. You have to call him a woman, or at the very least not mention that he is a MAN’. Maybe a ‘Nobody gives a toss how contemptuous or disrespectful this is to actual women’.

Mind you, we’ll see how brass the necks of Stuart, Norman et all were when they failed to uphold the rights of SP (and by extension all women). I wonder if they actively worked against women’s rights? It will be interesting to see them have to answer questions.

From TT:

NC - the email RCN say they sent to you - look at to box
Number men anything?
SP - No
Would you expect to be addressed that way?
No.

SP - [husband and mum] had been discussing with friends. H's cousin gave me a name of a lawyer. Got imression that SF wasn't taken it seriously.
My mum told me someone else had got advise from Neal haney our MP and I shd get the same.

I’m reminded that Sandi always referred to Dr U as Beth and he referred to her as “the claimant”.

From TT:

NC why MP when you had a union rep.
SP - Thought SF thought disciplined because I had done something wrong.

SP - Let NH read letter of my suspension. he was quite angry - shdn't be traeted like that. Given contacts for FWS and Sex Matters.

SP not easy to hear - missed some.

SP - I talked to MF at Sex Matters - and [missed] got a case against FHB.