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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton, following Employment Tribunal judgment - thread #62

1000 replies

nauticant · 03/08/2026 18:00

Judgment was handed down on 8 December 2025:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6936ce28a6fc97b81e57436a/S_Peggie_v_Fife_Health_Board__Dr_Upton.pdf

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.
Following handing down of the judgment on 8 December 2025, on 11 December 2025, it was announced by Sandie Peggie and her legal team that they would be pursuing an appeal and it was reported on 3 August 2026 that leave to appeal had been granted with an expectation that the appeal proceedings could take place in court early next year (2027).

The hearing was live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6.

Links to previous threads #1 to #60 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 60: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5461133-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-following-employment-tribunal-judgment-thread-60 16 December 2025 to 8 January 2026

Thread 61: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5472628-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-following-employment-tribunal-judgment-thread-61 8 January 2026 to 3 August 2026

OP posts:
Thread gallery
25
iwishitwouldstartraining · 23/09/2026 09:28

Igmum · 23/09/2026 09:24

That is absolutely dreadful and, I agree, looks deliberate. It also goes against the regulations the courts are supposed to work to.

Could any of our wonderful Mumsnet observers try to do note taking?

I'm hoping that he knows somebody who has access and can take their laptop to his house/office.

ETA: I see he has access now.

nauticant · 23/09/2026 09:29

Since it's been a while since we were following a hearing live, here's the standard reminder.

If you're watching/listening to the stream, it's best not to comment on what you're seeing/hearing as it happens and you should wait until there's a break to make your comment.

If you want to comment on a particular matter before then, then you should find a Tribunal Tweets tweet referring to the matter and base your comment on that.

This is not me being the thread Police because I get a kick from it. It's to make sure this thread is working well within the Employment Tribunal rules for the hearing.

OP posts:
ChimpanzeeThatMonkeyNews · 23/09/2026 09:30

Igmum · 23/09/2026 09:24

That is absolutely dreadful and, I agree, looks deliberate. It also goes against the regulations the courts are supposed to work to.

Could any of our wonderful Mumsnet observers try to do note taking?

That’s not very Open Justice-y. 🤨

Hedgehogforshort · 23/09/2026 09:30

Sounds like admin issue’s caused by the thronging masses, at the virtual court door, you would have thought they could have anticipated this.

Just prepping now.

Transcript from Micheal Foran’s talk (check), chip butty ingredients for lunch (check), supply of Tunnocks teacakes (check).

anything else i need?

fanOfBen · 23/09/2026 09:33

iwishitwouldstartraining · 23/09/2026 09:28

I'm hoping that he knows somebody who has access and can take their laptop to his house/office.

ETA: I see he has access now.

Edited

Glad he has access now, but fwiw, that's strictly not allowed. I've often wondered about hosting a watch party, but the instructions not only say you must not pass on your link, but also something about not allowing anyone else to overhear.

AugustDieSheMust · 23/09/2026 09:34

WFTCHTJ

This takes me back...

Madcats · 23/09/2026 09:34

Thank you, in advance, to all those tweeting/C&Ping and listening in with comments.

I’m stuck on trains for most of the day, so can’t help out this week.

AugustDieSheMust · 23/09/2026 09:34

Hedgehogforshort · 23/09/2026 09:30

Sounds like admin issue’s caused by the thronging masses, at the virtual court door, you would have thought they could have anticipated this.

Just prepping now.

Transcript from Micheal Foran’s talk (check), chip butty ingredients for lunch (check), supply of Tunnocks teacakes (check).

anything else i need?

Gin Coffee?

Hedgehogforshort · 23/09/2026 09:35

@AugustDieSheMust tea

Appalonia · 23/09/2026 09:35

AugustDieSheMust · 23/09/2026 09:34

WFTCHTJ

This takes me back...

Same. Memories!😂

YourWatermelonship · 23/09/2026 09:36

Right, here we go

<flexes neck>
<cracks knuckles>

poodlemum01 · 23/09/2026 09:37

memories of the collective 'FUCK OFF' when DU talked about his big girl pants

ickky · 23/09/2026 09:40

@poodlemum01 I am on my best behaviour today.

chilling19 · 23/09/2026 09:41

Good morning WFTCHTJ 👋

ickky · 23/09/2026 09:43

Good morning Chilling19 👋

fanOfBen · 23/09/2026 09:44

We should have a sweepstake on when proceedings will actually begin. I'll optimistically say 10:13.

Hedgehogforshort · 23/09/2026 09:45

Oh hi @ickky i am the one that always asks you for links to the open justice substack cos i am tech stupid 😁

RoseInAPot · 23/09/2026 09:45

First day usually involves some off camera legal wrangling so I'll wager we won't start until after 11am and be very happy if I am wrong 😁

Hedgehogforshort · 23/09/2026 09:47

i wonder if we will have an on line disruptor, pics of slippers, hairdryers etc.

Shortshriftandlethal · 23/09/2026 09:49

Going by on line image the judge looks very young. Somehow, I expect a judge to be very senior and experienced.

ILikeDungs · 23/09/2026 09:49

Hedgehogforshort · 23/09/2026 09:47

i wonder if we will have an on line disruptor, pics of slippers, hairdryers etc.

I think they have sorted that out this time and as an observer you are automatically muted and camera off

SlackJawedDisbeliefXY · 23/09/2026 09:51

Whilst we wait, I was talking to a friend in the CS about EHCR guidance and its implementation. They introduced me to an expression I had not heard before combative compliance. Does not bode well

chilling19 · 23/09/2026 09:52

ickky · 23/09/2026 09:43

Good morning Chilling19 👋

Hey ickky! Here we are again 👍

Hoardasurass · 23/09/2026 09:54

prh47bridge · 20/09/2026 19:59

I won't be able to follow the hearing this week and I'm going to have limited internet access. So, some quick thoughts.

Sandie needs to show that the RCN refused to support her and that this has adversely affected her. She does not need to prove that the refusal was for unlawful reasons (presumably her gender critical views, either directly or indirectly), but she does need to make a prima facie case that it was.

Assuming she can do that, which seems likely, RCN needs to show that their failure to support her was on valid legal grounds. They may, for example, be able to justify their failure to support her if they can show that they had received legal advice that the case was not winnable.

My view is that the RCN has published plenty of material showing that it promotes gender self-id principles. There seems to be little evidence that they consider the impact on their female members or patients. There also seems to be a consistent pattern of RCN refusing to support female members objecting to trans-identifying males using the female changing rooms. I therefore think Sandie should win, but that is without seeing what evidence will be presented or hearing the witnesses.

I think the biggest question for me at this stage is whether the tribunal will think the timing is significant. FWS was decided in April 2025, over a year after Sandie's problems with Fife started and several months after RCN had rejected her request for legal assistance. It is possible the tribunal will conclude that it was reasonable for RCN and/or its legal advisers to think her case was not winnable prior to FWS and that it was this rather than discrimination against members with GC views that led to them refusing support. However, I hope that, even if there is evidence that RCN did not think the case was winnable, the tribunal will conclude that this was due to anti-GC bias by RCN or its advisers.

The haldane ruling in 2022 specifically stated that self-id was not legal and that men like Dr Upton who have the PC of gender reassignment but no GRC are still male and had no right to use female single sex spaces nor the expectation to do so. As such the fact that the supreme crt didn't rule on men with a GRC until April 2025 is irrelevant as Dr Upton doesn't/didn't have a GRC so was covered by the haldane ruling under the parts that were not appealed and were agreed with by all sides.
That said even if the union had advice saying that the case was unwinible the advice was clearly and obviously wrong and had been for quite some time

poodlemum01 · 23/09/2026 09:54

cant change my username yet back to my previous peggie one, so will wait for next threads, been here since the start though.
drums fingers impatiently

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