STOP MIS GENDERING ME JUST SAY SHE

There’s a conflict of rights though.

According to you, it’s the right of men who say they are women to be recognised as women.

This means that the blue-wigged, stripy socked tantrumy man who is the subject of this thread is a woman.

Women and girls largely do not want this dangerously dysregulated man in their toilets, changing rooms or doing their personal care. TRAs think this is all fine and dandy.

It’s not a “biased” view to not want him, or other men, with vulnerable women.

You really ARE new here, aren't you?
🎻

Very good to know - thanks. Next time you hear someone say, "TERFs don't want trans people to exist!" or some such childishly offensive tripe, please do think of my list!

TERFs mainly just want people to think a bit bloody harder about what trans means:

1. for those identifying as trans, often for their own well-being
2. for those whose language and rights have been diluted, for their well-being
3. for society, democracy and freedom of speech, for its long-term health

That's it, really. But, oh boy (or girl 😉), is that one hell of a BIG "It". Certainly, It's worth some careful reading and thought.

(And is fascinating too, frankly. The other thing that drew me into this debate was the range of disciplines it touches on: biology, anthropology, sociology, psychology, philosophy, ethics, politics... But take it slow, too - it can be overwhelming and upsetting. For many of us here, the wider reading has been life-changing.

And keeps us up late at night!)

Well it's certainly been an education on this board! Luckily I'm no snowflake but do you normally all pile on in such a manner and accuse posters of being vertically challenged mysonist males just because their views seem to be re "all people" instead of "all female people"? I would have thought it would be more productive to be a more.. like Catiette generally if you want to genuine progress peoples though processes in the way you promote. I'm not proud of some of my responses, but I was responding in kind for the most part. A lot of people wouldn't have read on them and seen some of what was behind it.

im not offended that people seem to believe im a thick twat. (I'm not actually.. my life has followed a certain path.. that does not make me stupid or ignorant). But I'm a little offended that people accused me of being a small minded male just because I have a differing view

It's not abuse to call an adult human male a man. 😂
And sometimes it's actually very necessary.

But we exist together and men can be feminists too?

Slow handclap for you then I guess? Shades of "All lives matter" isn't it though?

Is anyone allowed to specifically discuss the needs and rights of their group without considering "all people's rights"?
Or is it that funny trick again, where what you really mean is that women aren't allowed to discuss their needs and rights as a sex class separate from men? That's what it sounds like you are saying.

Obviously I, along with I assume everyone else here, care about peoples rights in general, are you trying to imply that the women posting here don't?

We can multitask you know, and we can care about more than one group of people at a time. There is a whole internet of options to discuss general rights, or specifically male supremacy rights for you and the other TRAs.

This is the women's rights feminism, sex and gender board though.

I'm posting on the aforementioned board titled women's rights; feminism, sex and gender discussion* *here on MN because funnily enough, I want to read and discuss those topics with other feminist women.

It's very clear to me that women's rights to privacy, dignity and safety away from men either doesn't register on your list of all important "PEOPLE's MEN's Rights", or are so low down on it that you'd be happy to put any man's feelings above the law and all women's rights.

Your beliefs do put literally any man above the rights of all women. Any man, from the nicest most inoffensive (still male though!), all the way to the very worst and most dangerous men.

People in general are becoming more aware of what's happening due to men like the one in the OP video. Even the younger generations are getting increasingly fed up with gender ideology.

Reality, the law, science, and the majority of the people in the world agree with the whole GC position that no one can possibly change sex.

Be who you are, wear what you like, but obey the law.

I don’t agree men are feminists. They can be allies.

What about women who idenify as men? I'm hearing little about this aspect

I didn’t accuse you of being male so not sure why you are quoting me to complain about it. You’ve repeatedly come out with misinformation on this thread. I don’t think you have a particularly good understanding of the law around gender identity issues but nor do most people, so not a judgment on your intellect or lack of it.

You've been speaking to such a person on this thread, @Seethlaw has been replying to your posts.

I was speaking generally .not intending to accuse you of saying I was make @Ereshkigalangcleg . Several did. The woman hating thing makes no sense to me either .. I didn't state anything to suggest i dislike women

I'll go back and look. Thank you

Agree you should talk to @Seethlaw but I’m not seeing this post as in any way relevant to what the poster said to you?

Your inability to understand why other women don’t see these men as women, and find it oppressive to have it forced on them.

I'm not surprised. It's 1.30am. I probably responded to the wrong post

But not all women see everything as the women in this board do. That doesn't make all other women automatically 'wrong'

Take care with that "just because". There's not really any "just", and there's a heck of a lot of "because". By which I mean, reading more widely may help to explaining the sheer weight of concern that lies behind the strength of feeling you see here - and the, quite honestly, entirely understandable angry astonishment many posters feel at the confidence with which visitors (sometimes quite insultingly) misunderstand or misrepresent GC views even as they're clearly explained a few posts above.

A recurrent debate on here is how best to challenge the silencing of women's voices on this subject so we can at last be heard - really heard, with thoughts actually read and reflected on and responded to.

Some take a more ploddingly cautious approach (me!) Others feel that patience and "kindness" have, in large part, contributed to where we now find ourselves - that is, needing a bloody court case, no less, to establish that women are a discrete demographic still perhaps worthy of recognition in law (also under debate when we won the vote a mere 100 years ago), and that time's up now - to hell with all that! Both views and approaches are valid, and different people respond to different approaches.

The great thing is, we can all choose which posts we engage with and scroll on past the rest. It's sometimes interesting - revealing, even? - to see what posters like yourself focus on.

Dammit, I'm going to bed now!

I just find it so absurd. Think about it. You’ve already said that you don’t see the man in this video as a woman, so what criteria is in play? How can women tell? Is it all about passing?

That depends entirely on the context. It can certainly be abusive

Did you actually read my post? I was saying that you are unable to understand why other women have a problem with being forced to validate men as “women”.

So you agree there are contexts where it isn’t then?

This board is an education in more ways than one.

Women are not required to be nice, polite girls to post here. We can speak our minds and sometimes that means sometimes we are blunt or even rude, some of us more than others (looks at self).

We are strident in our beliefs, because we are correct, backed up with well evidenced arguments and some of the posters have spent around two decades arguing with entitled and aggressive men about our right to exist as a separate sex class apart from male people, fighting off appropriation of our words, names, spaces, rights, places, awards, groups, lesbianism, prisons, rape crisis centres, and on and on and ON AND ON.

We are rightfully pretty fucked off.

No one is calling you stupid.

However, your arguments are weak, not backed up with evidence, or in the law. They would disadvantage women and girls.

Clearly you didn't read the board a bit first to see what we generally think, you just came wading in with incorrect statements of the law, and told us what you incorrectly believe we think. Then you refused to be told you were wrong. Do you know how many men come here to do the exact same thing? Who use almost exactly the same arguments? All the bloody time. Not surprising then that makes some people think you are yet another TRA man who's come to poke at the women, don't you think?

There's a difference between engaging with the content of the posts and the tone, maybe try playing the ball in future, not the player as it were. So actually engage in good faith with the content of the posts, and remember which board you're posting on instead of just getting shirty because someone's flashed a bit of snark at your arguably provocative posts which are in favour of Self ID for trans identifying men.

Edited for spelling.

Because I presented a scenario you don't want to see here?

You believe that this blue-wigged bloke is a woman, because you believe in gender ideology.

Ergo, you believe he and his tantrumy self belong in spaces where vulnerable women and girls are.

This demonstrates a decided lack of care, support and understanding of what women and girls deserve and require. You are part of the problem here.