STOP MIS GENDERING ME JUST SAY SHE

Irony didn't come across. It just makes you look like an unserious person who is just attempting to goad. It makes you look really silly. "Nah! Just joking" 🙄what shite.

Correctly sexing men as male is not abusive, morally or legally.

But you agree with him that he’s a woman?

Or can men only be women if they aren’t mentally unwell? Because that would be considered a highly transphobic view.

Yep got it!

Taking your comments on that snapshot in time, as you saw it, as depicted in that video, about that person (jeso breathe before you pass out!), even taking into account that you may have been incorrect about them...

By your own measure what you said means that you yourself were being prejudicial, abusive and acting illegally. Weren't you? Or is it only prejudice, abuse and illegal when we do it?

And again, just to point out the Award for Self Defeating Beliefs goes to you because like I said, for your sex realist beliefs the TRAs would be condemning you as transphobic at best, you do know that right?

They don’t have this right and you and they have no right to expect it from people who don’t believe in your ideology.

So do all your fringe gender beliefs.

Aaah earworm! Dum de dum de dum de dumpty... If I only had a brain!

TRAs really do love their straw men Scarecrow though!

Did it? I was being ironic. Not overly bothered what you think but thanks for your observation. Why bother commenting on my shite. That makes YOU look like you actually care what I'm saying, you know that right? Just move on and speak with someone more deserving of your superior attention.

Obviously some trans people DO pass as women.. whether you like it or not (.. you could be peeing in the next cubicle to them in the ladies.. and you just gotta live with that! It's just a fact of living a life in the 2020s.. some people are trans whether you accept it or not. Whole point of my posts)

Thank you

Hardly any of them pass as women IRL, pull the other one. Why do you think zero of these men in the public eye do? If they genuinely did, they’d be able to sneak into our spaces without anyone knowing, wouldn’t they? And no I wouldn’t want them there, but no one would be aware.

But all the problems have been caused by people seeing obvious men in women’s spaces.

Sandie Peggie and the Darlington nurses mysteriously knew “Beth” and “Rose” were men.

Nobody outs themselves" for any reason, it's mumsnet for heavens sake JK!! It's nothing to do with "people like me"

Anyway as pp have pointed out, many trans rights activists would put you in the unspeakable bigot box with us, they’re not very nuanced.

Yes, the second that poster avoided pronouns for the blue-wigged dude they would have been denounced as a bigot.

You can’t gate-keep these things, apparently.

Why bother with your shite? Well I care about women's rights. And I'm a bit bored, and I'm finding you slightly amusing.

And again you can misrepresent lie about the law, the feminist belief's of the posters here and our arguments, but you are just screaming into a void.

The law is clear, trans identified men are male and do not belong in female single sex spaces. Where necessary, women will continue to take employers, service providers and so on to court where they will continue to win their cases, because both the moral and legal position supports us.

Women have rights, trans identified men do not get to run roughshod over those rights. Women are allowed to say "that is a man/he/him" etc because our stance is both scientific and Worthy Of Respect In A Democratic Society (or WORIADS) as outlined by the Maya Forstater judgement.

Trans identified men will just have to live with that! It's just a fact of living a life in the 2020s.. women have rights whether you accept it or not. Whole point of my posts 😂

Your exchange could only have been made better by adding a sneery "so there!", giving it "nyer ner ne nyer ner!", and sticking your metaphorical tongue out at me.

Like I said, slightly amusing.

It doesn’t matter whether they consider themselves trans or anything else. It’s about sex. Men should not be accessing spaces just for women. It’s not morally right to violate women’s boundaries and people who enable it are not good people. It’s not legal to harass women.

If you really want to help your trans friends, the absolute best thing you can do for them is stop giving them the idea that everyone else supports their beliefs. Because it’s a hard comedown for them when they realise that the vast majority of people do not.

Indeed. Not sure pp realises that.

Oh for the love all that's holy, just read some books.

Or listen to some podcasts.

I'm cringing inside out for you right now. You have no idea what you're talking about.

I care about PEOPLE's rights. All people. That's why I posted in the first place. It doesn't mean I don't care about women's rights.. it just means I'm posting in a place too biased for my voice to land on anything BUT the void.

Glad to have amused you. I can live with that. I might spend more time on the feminist boards. It's quite amusing and I have actually learnt some stuff too.

Some things are zero sum @DetectiveDouche- the idea that men must be validated as women at all costs is harmful to women and girls. This is the feminism board where we focus on guess what? Women and girls, not men of any type. It’s not the “care about everyone” board, any more than the doghouse is the “care about all mammals” board.

Your recent posts seem more thoughtful, DD, so one more from me before I go to bed too (I've done that thing of saying I'll head off then getting sucked in, too!)

Much of what you write here misreads and misunderstands the law, GC thinking and what people here are saying. Other readers can see this! In a fast-moving thread in which you're debating with a majority, this can be understandable. But when it shifts into misrepresenting the views of said majority, it doesn't look so good, and makes readers start to question what's going on at your end.

I honestly think that our arguments are "scary" for you, as you're so clearly avoiding GC analysis even as GC posters tackle your own perspective head on. This trend is actually what led me to question the TRA narrative - seeing its superficiality inadvertently highlighted in this way made me read more widely.

I'd really recommend you do the same. There are a number of areas in which I think, if you'll forgive me saying, you're accepting an activist (or highly politicised) narrative and being very naive. It can take a huge amount of courage to accept this may be possible, but really, where's the harm? Read around this stuff and, if your opinions are as right-on as you believe, you'll be able to argue them better. And if not, wouldn't you rather know? Not least as many posters here actually worry that your level of understanding and approach to this debate is actually harming the trans community!

I'd recommend focussing on what you actually mean by trans. I'm someone who would question whether there's any such thing, because (be brave and read on - the next bit's essential!): I see "trans" as a harmful umbrella term that invisibilises and thereby harms a wide range of disparate groups, each with their own respective needs. You could read (by which I mean not just "googling", but actually seeking out and spending long hours with research papers, books, peer reviewed studies etc. - as many posters here have) about

• gender dysphoria (I've spoken to medics about it in some depth - fascinating, especially in how vanishingly rare is really is)
• so-called "trans-identifying" children, with close reference to the above (Irreversible Damage is critically acclaimed on this)
• detransitioners (they're harder to find speaking out, as they're a particularly oppressed community almost totally silenced by that uncomplicatedly positive, harmless umbrella we all so love over here)
• lesbian dissenters (as above)
• autogynephilia (there are some high-profile writers with the condition, including Debbie Hayton, while the profusion of videos out there speak volume - research with care)
• sissification (sp.? - again, extreme care advised, and an internet rabbithole I've very happily not gone down myself!)
• so-called rapid-onset prison dysphoria (ex prison-governor Rhonda Hodgekiss - totally misspelt - is interesting on this)
• high-profile trans writers (eg. Andrea Long Chu - I'm sure this wasn't their intention, but WOW have some made me rethink "trans" as an unthinking umbrella category)
• drag (included under the umbrella by many, including Stonewall til very recently, now less so... what does this suggest about "trans" as a stable category?!)
• the so-called intersex community (disparate voices, as most communities are, but I'd suggest that those whose voices are least heard and are therefore most in need of our attention are those who feel silenced by clumsy attempts to use their condition to validate the concept of "trans" by being - yep, you guessed it - dragged under the umbrella themselves in some cases)
• the similarly-absorbed so-called "trans" communities of other, non-western nations (I'd argue these are not straightforwardly "trans" as we commonly understand it over here, and have in fact been diluted by the western trans umbrella, sometimes - some writers have depressingly suggested - for the political and financial benefits this offers: a kind of cultural colonialism, if you will... again, not a widely heard view here!)
• transwidows (also hard to source information on, as also, frankly, often frightened into silence - all the more reason to seek them out, I say)

Happy reading... (if you dare 😉!)

That's an odd response. What has reading got to do with user names?

I dont mind at all how much you're cringing. You don't know me at all.. not one bit.. and certainly not what I've read. I think you are enjoying being angry at an internet stranger you are determined to see in a certain way. Go at it! Enjoy! Cringe away

You are basically pulling “all lives matter” there. Feminism is about women.

Catiette is much more patient than me and unfailingly civil and polite, I recommend engaging with her posts.

I have book marked your post and will look into some of that @Catiette .