STOP MIS GENDERING ME JUST SAY SHE

A man, out of control & therefore a danger to himself and others, can still be vulnerable eg if a person was having a psychotic break.
I think this man's MH is very fragile: his insistence on not being 'misgendered' was more important to him in that moment than being pepper-sprayed.
It's not good that it's on the internet. He is unwell (he cannot be a woman, he cannot / will not cope with that, it becomes a problem to those around him).
It could be that this is a fairly isolated incident (the Police could do with more training in de-escalation). It could be shades of this happen if anyone looks at him the wrong way in the 'Ladies Loo'. He needs MH treatment. He may also be ASD but of course that is not a MH condition and cannot be treated.
I have two ASD young people. One considers themselves 'trans'. Neither would behave in this way (they have had spectacular meltdowns but would become very afraid / 'comatose' rather than being able to insist on pronouns/'fight back')

I think she means that all the people enabling him in identifying as a “woman” have exacerbated his PD.

I saw a man who looked very much like this, marching into the Ladies at a museum a couple of weeks ago, as I was walking out. I felt annoyed with myself later that I hadn’t challenged him, I would have told a staff member but the museum was closing and there was nobody nearby. I didn’t challenge him because this is how I imagined the response. There were three loos, Male, Female and mixed with baby changing, so he could have used the mixed.

I'm a TRA, you're a TERF. I'm not debating any further than that. You hold whatever beliefs you want. 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

By LD I’m assuming you’re meaning what in Aus is an Intellectual disability, ie IQ <70?

these are NOT the children with autism co-opting a trans identity. It’s the children with normal cognition, some very bright, mainly girls presenting as “trans” after puberty.

As with anything, people don't want to see anything difficult or challenging. Because there is also the fundamental problem that if you see a problem you have to acknowledge it and then take action.

And taking action requires effort.

No one wants to deal with problems in our society at present. There's a base level of laziness and apathy that's driving this all unfortunately. Across all types of politics and policy. It's anything for an easy life and virtue signalling is so much easier than dealing with issues as grass roots level.

Yes, I will, and do. Thanks for your valuable contribution.

Don’t be silly Eresh, they only have a passing, very slight interest in this topic. No hidden agenda at all 🙃

Doesn’t surprise me at all.

It’s not good for him that it’s on the Internet. However, it’s good that it is and that such a wide audience has been reached. It’s good that the “be kind” crew are learning what happens when ideology meets reality. This is a dangerous man and trans is a dangerous reality

oh natch 😂

This is not exactly the point being made.

The point is we've all been told to enable and affirm
people like this, in the interests of 'being kind'. To the extent that this man thinks he has right to be referenced to as a woman, may think he 'passes', probably thinks he has a right to women's spaces.

Enabling men like this is certainly not in women's interests. It seems to not be in his own interests either if this is the behaviour it encourages.

Affirmation of delusion is an awful strategy.

It's one person. No more representative of trans people than Rose West is of cis women

It enrages me to be called a 'cis' woman. Biological woman is better but unnecessary because it's obvious. Just 'woman' is short and accurate.
However, if someone called me 'cis' out in public I'd ignore it and cease communication. Not have a wobbly.

What's interesting to me is the debate over his 'vulnerabilities'. Specifically the potential for having autism/mental illness. This was a person completely out of control 'allegedly'. Yet once cuffed had a very different demeanor. He was immediately compliant. He continued to debate with the officers about being misgendered. But was totally in control. That's a quick turned around for someone so emotionally dysregulated.

That's the problem though. Clearly no-one has intervened up to now and given this man the mental help he so desperately needs. Instead he's been validated and pandered to - it's not kind, and it's made his delusions worse, and frankly made him dangerous.

The focus on his “vulnerabilities” is an attempt to handwave away the issue of these men having to interact with people who aren’t going to validate them.

BEFORE the cuffing, this man wasn't sure who was in control. He wanted to be. The Police said they would spray him, then told him to get on the ground. He was still very reactive. Once cuffed he knew he had nowhere to go & no control. At that point it is not uncommon for a person to become totally compliant.
Some do not and need further intervention (a shot of a tranquilliser)

Yes, although I also don't know how best to handle a man who appears to be in the grip of a personality disorder and possibly also having a meltdown.

I mean I have no idea. Is it best to 'affirm' to try and soothe? Is it best to 'grey rock'?

Police need to have a handle on how to approach these situations, but in order to handle them well, they must be able to be clear, ask questions, and be honest.

Yes I thought similar. No longer able to use his physicality so very quickly changed tack to ‘this has all been a misunderstanding’. Everything is pure speculation though - autism, mental health, just being an entitled dick. No one can possibly give a conclusive assessment on a few minutes of footage.

That's all supposition.

Police absolutely need to be training on effectively handling these individuals. To a lesser extent other people on the front line of services. It can’t be expected that members of the general public will affirm their identities, and that puts women and girls, especially, at risk.

What I mean is, back in the normal times, a man who is wearing outlandish clothing and shouting at policemen would have been instantly 'profiled' as possibly vulnerable, possibly a risk, possibly delusional, possibly volatile etc.

Now, a man wearing 'woman's' clothing is instantly 'profiled' as someone who must be affirmed, celebrated with special months, days, and flags, and agreed with, whatever they ask.

When they are obviously behaving unacceptably, it makes it very, very hard for people to know how to respond.

You can hear the policeman's cognitive dissonance struggling - he knows the man's behaviour is not acceptable in normal circs, but he has been trained that a man who talks about 'gender' must be affirmed and pandered to.

I'm thinking of dogs on leads and how this interferes with normal signalling and comms.

Agree.

Of course not, but that is quite pertinent.

Police and first responders and in fact everyone who lives and participates in society operates on a rough, quick assessment in interactions.

We rely on social cues and our pattern recognition and education etc.

A policeman confronted with a man in a dress has now had his responses skewed and confused and doesn't quite know what to do. That may also mean he is less able to handle the situation in the best way.

He can't win, really. Neither can the volatile, difficult man.

Everyone fucken loses.

Because we have all been groomed to second guess our instincts.

women confronted with big, shouty men wearing children's clothing would naturally be wary and cautious.

We are told this is wrong.

We are told we must 'be kind'. Ignore our instincts.

Talking about it is cruel. Sharing evidence is cruel. Protecting ourselves is cruel.

https://www.vic.gov.au/media/977575