STOP MIS GENDERING ME JUST SAY SHE

Why would you go on to a discussion board and not be prepared to discuss anything, this is why we think you're loonie tunes. Make it make sense 😜 LT.

A vulnerable person in a state of distress.

As an aside, and it IS an aside so does not relate specifically to the footage posted, I'm always mildly taken aback by the amount of trans denial in evidence on mumsnet. It's a recognised thing whether the middle class MM majority recognise it or not.

I have similar social circle and the only trans person I know personally is autistic. I can also certainly see how it happens. I know a "classically" autistic child with mild learning disability (but severe speech delay and very obvious autistic behaviour, lack of understanding etc etc etc) keeps saying he is a girl because he likes face paint and supposedly girly clothes. He doesn't even know what a vagina is yet. Luckily the parents have not immediately jumped to telling him what trans is, but I could totally see what could happen if they did.

I also appreciate (having severely learning disabled autistic children myself) that autism is extremely complex in how it can present. You can have autistic people who can just about talk but really not understand the world around them. On Mumsnet I normally advocate more for the severely learning disabled autistic people, but other autistic people can be very vulnerable. It is surprisingly nuanced and I enjoyed that video of the gender critical psychiatrist that was posted earlier.

@DetectiveDouche actually studies suggest that gender ideology is a luxury belief.

Obviously most women these days want single sex spaces.

It's middle class women who are much more likely to still cling to the belief in gender ideology.

Did you see this study by the Higher Education Policy Institute?

HEPI Survey: Student Views on Single-Sex Spaces in UK

All those who feel sorry for him, perhaps don't realise he'll be a hero in the 'community' for this performance.

@DetectiveDouche from the study:

Key Demographic Variations in Responses
Breakdowns by sex, socio-economic background, ethnicity and subject of study highlight significant differences. Female students showed 33% support for biological males in women’s changing rooms compared with 26% among male students. Students from more privileged ABC1 backgrounds expressed 33% approval versus 26% among working-class C2DE respondents.

Ethnic patterns were pronounced. Just 22% of Black students and 24% of Asian students supported biological males accessing women’s facilities, compared with 36% of White students.

Subject differences proved equally striking: Humanities and Social Sciences students split evenly at 43% in favour and 43% against, while those in medicine, STEM, Business and Management recorded decisive majorities against. Creative Arts and Design students showed a smaller but still clear majority opposing access.

Despite the performances of jumping up and down, and screaming blue murder, I think he is quite aware of what he is doing. The trouble is that he might have been used to people letting him get away with it, and using it to bully people into submission.

When the policeman first approached him, he was having his screaming session about not letting people get away with misgendering him. So, I presume he wanted to get someone into trouble for not pretending he is female. When the policeman said he needed to stop shouting, or he might get arrested, his switch to menacing, low male voice ‘try it’ (paraphrased) gave away how he was no distressed victim. Now, he seemed to have a little reflection on how it might not be good to provoke the police, with pepper spray and taser, as it might not be as easy as other, less empowered targets he might come across. Cue, he changed to ‘poor likkle me, don’t upset me’ (my interpretation) tactic.

Also the cool, lucidity of accusing the police of provoking him (if you don’t mind), and pressing his knobs. It appeared to me, he was the one who pressed as many knobs as he could with the police. He just didn’t get his own way this time (probably after being used to getting away, and his way, with his tyrannical outbursts).

If you didn’t have police powers, pepper spray, taser, and two men to stop him, I’d view this man as being a danger to women and children. And anyone weaker than him. I think he is a thug.

And I don't feel even a smidgeon of pity for him. He's a horrible violent, grotesque, entitled pig of a man, no matter how mentally ill he is. Not my problem, and not my job to pity this pig.

I think it’s worth remembering where this happened. Florida introduced rules in 2023 rolling back a lot of what I’d describe as trans overreach, prisons, changing rooms, sports divided by biological sex. No gender affirming treatments for minors. Public institutions / police don’t need to use preferred pronouns when dealing with the public and in some cases the guidelines discourage them from doing so.

I agree that it’s tricky for the officers they will have been trained at some point to be very affirmative and then the training changes. It could very well be their first trans person incident since guidance updates.

Sad.

I saw this. the overwhelming feeling I had was one of pity for someone having a major mental health episode and should be helped, not affirmed, they have huge issues. Didn't feel good to see.

I came across a more recent video about this.

This one has extended footage of a police officer interviewing a witness afterwards (the interview starts at about the 15 min mark in the video).

The witness appears to be another student who has a room on the same floor.

The witness stated that this person had a history of being aggressive towards other students and had even chased a couple of them out of the lift two weeks earlier.

It appears that the current incident started shortly after some young teenagers (described as 'juvenile kids' by the witness) had been calling him names outside the lift and he got aggressive towards them.

They then ran away from him and the policeman entered shortly afterwards on an entirely unrelated matter.

They then interviewed 'Josh' (the man seen in the video in the green tee shirt). Josh said that he backed off at one point because he also felt threatened by this person.

A further witness, a security guard, said that he (the trans-identifying man) chased some young kids out of the foyer because he thought that they were laughing at him and the security guard had to restrain him from going after the kids.

So, just some context as to what happened immediately prior to the video interaction with the police.

I agree with your assessment, he was well versed in the mantras, and his insistence they could just say she, shows how this was the victory he wanted. It's an attempt to manipulate and coerce.

Freak.

It's truly sad that a person with this much angst isn't getting the help they need. They clearly are very distressed, but the police have have much better things to do than deal with this. If it was anyone other than a transperson, the police would just try to calm them down, then arrest them until they do. I don't think putting this on YouTube is particularly helpful for any of the parties.

It's quite possible for several things to be true at once.

He can be vulnerable, manipulative, coercive, fragile, violent, etc.

The difficulty is we don't know which and it's hard to assess whether he needs to be placated, pacified, restrained, told firmly 'no', sectioned, helped, arrested, or a mix of all of the above. I do feel for first responders having to navigate what is already a complex situation WHILE ALSO aware of the threat of censure or discplinary procedures from said person, activists, and their own employers.

Loving the AI misheard 'misgendering' as 'mask jangling'!

He has very selective memory, as though he wasn't already kicking off when the police showed up. The security guard had felt his intervention was warranted to possibly prevent Vick's from assaulting some juveniles.

It wasn't the misgendering, although that supercharged him, he was already being a dick. I thought it was interesting that he said something like, 'I just wanted you to....', then tailed off. Either because he didn't know what he wanted or because even he realised what he was going to say was totally unacceptable.

I think it basically comes down to compliance. The police at least were up front that that is what they required. Vick's also wanted it, he just didn't come right out and say it. Irresistible force meet immovable object.

Eta. That's possibly how he was going to finish his sentence, 'I just wanted you to comply'.

Literally no one “denies” that people who identify as the opposite sex exist. What I think you’re suggesting, and correct me if I’m wrong, is that a lot of people deny these people actually are the opposite sex. Yes, that’s the majority view, because they are not the opposite sex. And IME most of the people claiming this are middle class anyway so I’m not sure why you’re banging on about that. It’s a luxury belief.

Thank you for the extra context, it’s helpful for people to see the patterns of behaviour in many of these cases.

Yes, and interesting to see the police discuss what happened and how to treat him going forward, where to put him in custody. They are respectful and compassionate, I would say.

'he's going to need some care. Yeah. There's something wrong.

Yeah. Yeah. And he definitely can't be with Gen Pop. They will destroy him.'

By LD I’m assuming you’re meaning what in Aus is an Intellectual disability, ie IQ <70?
these are NOT the children with autism co-opting a trans identity. It’s the children with normal cognition, some very bright, mainly girls presenting as “trans” after puberty

I mean a Learning Disability. The special schools/groups/etc include those with autism who need the support of special services. Many of them have no intellectual impairment, rather need to be supported in other ways for their
autism diagnosis, and would have difficulty in mainstream services. Social awareness etc. It might seem incongruous that these two groups are mixed together in a support setting but it seems to work as far as my experience goes.
In short, I do understand the difference between the two.

@Ereshkigalangcleg @ "banging on" 😂. My phone is pinging like a good 'un as a result of my factual observation that the 'middle class MN collective' freak out about trans issues. The irony 😂

Perhaps I've derailed the observation by mentioning "middle-class-ness" so let me address that: The Mumsnet MAJORITY get very.. aeriated.. at the fact that being trans is a PROTECTED LEGAL STATUS in the UK.. that's a fact.. doesn't matter how much they shriek on about birth gender being set in stone. It's THAT opinion that is not legally recognised anymore.. and yet it takes up so many pages of posts on all threads mentioning trans.. like these opinions are going to reverse the legal status that now exists! It baffles me. I guess people need an outlet for their prejudices and sadly, it's here. Even though it won't make a jot of difference! It reminds me of when people used to get away with being so openly prejudiced against gayness. Some people are gay - live with it. Similarly, some people are trans.. so folk better learn to live with THAT too.. or at least their own discomfort about it. Preferably quietly

I’m not middle class, and most trans rights activists are, so obviously I’m going to challenge your bizarre post.

It’s got nothing to do with “birth gender” because that isn't a thing, it’s sex which is observed at birth, and aren’t you aware of the major Supreme Court ruling last year? You’re not very well informed. Ask your male friends who identify as women whether they feel legally protected because they do keep complaining that they aren’t.

@DetectiveDouche

It's not so much about trans people, as it is about women, who also have rights, no matter that TRAs wish otherwise.