Or is this victim blaming?

And everyone knows and agrees with this.

Well, every woman does anyway.

The problem is that men seem to have a problem understanding it (or they just don’t give a shit about consent usually) which is why we should always view them as a potential risk to our safety.

For a woman to do as you describe here and mark herself safe from men, she needs to cover all bare flesh, stay indoors after dark, and not drink alcohol in the presence of men. She should avoid conversation with any man she does not intend to sleep with. If she has a conversation with a man and changes her mind, that's on her.

Are you SURE you want to pursue this line of thought? Not least because we know it doesn't stop the raping. The biggest protection against rape for a woman is to isolate herself from all male partners, friends and relatives, and never be in their company alone, as 70% of rapes are inflicted by someone you know very well or have an intimate relationship with.

Are you SURE women's behaviour is the problem, and they should know better?

Your original question was 'so why do it?'

To give you a genuine answer to this question, women do it for the same reason anyone does anything, which is because they want to.

That's not the actual question you're asking though. What you're asking is, 'why don't some women respond to the threats men make towards them in the way that society expects them to?'

I'm not sure why you're asking this question. Are you annoyed at those women? Or jealous of them? Or something else?

I don’t think telling women to stay indoors because there’s a lunatic serial killer active and on the loose is remotely the same thing as advising women to limit what they do to mitigate the behaviour of men in general. At all.

Its very very rare women get raped or murdered by complete strangers.

Then we educate the men - although why they should need this in this day and age is ridiculous - not tell women to limit or control the way they behave just in case the men attack them. Ffs, it’s not difficult.

Well I'd say it is difficult. We have been 'educating' for a very long time. One of the most heinous and socially reviled crimes is child sexual abuse, yet many men still commit it. Some people will never give a fuck however much you tell them that something is wrong. Especially men who prey on women down dark alleys. The ones where it might work a bit are the ones who commit date-rape or take advantage of drunk friends. But even then, I am pretty sure they know it's wrong but if they think they can get away with it, they will.

Another relevant point is the huge number of women who claim their DS is an angel and would never engage in anything untoward and treat grown men or nearly grown men like children and make every excuse in the book for their abusive and nasty behaviour.

@Feedingmybaby I compare this to walking alone in the dark - we should be able to do this as women!

I never understand this one. No one expects to able to walk safely at night, hence why taxis exist.

So why should women be able to do something that no one else can freely do?

It’s not helpful to compare burglary with sexual assault or murder. It reduces the victims to an object.

Can you imagine the police questioning of men for any crime committed against them:

But what were you wearing?
Did you say no?
Did you try to push them off?
Did you scream?
Had you been drinking?
Did you cover drinks?
Why did you chose to walk alone?
Did you take drugs?
Did you give an indication earlier that you wanted to be insert crime?

Well I'd say it's quite similar actually. What if it's a serial rapist rather than a killer? What if a university has had numerous reports of drug-rape on campus and tells female students never to leave a drink unattended and to avoid drinking to excess? When is it okay to warn people about safety and when should we class it as victim-blaming?

OP, you are right in that women do need to protect themselves and not put themselves into positions of danger.

DD is 18 and at Uni now. I talked to her about not drinking so much that she passes out or doesn't know what she is doing and about not walking home on her own from a club at 3am. I told her about drink spiking and not to leave drinks unattended or accept them from strangers.

I did those things in the same way that I told her not to walk around waving her mobile phone in front of her, and also told her to keep her handbag zipped and near her front at all times.

It is not victim blaming to tell a woman to keep herself safe. The rapist or robber are still in the wrong and will always be the ones to blame, but there are things that you can do to reduce the odds of it happening.

I am with you OP in wishing that women would take account of the danger they are in and in particular that would avoid getting drunk except in really safe spaces, eg in their own homes and with people they can trust. It is not their 'fault' if they are abused and they have committed no 'crime' by deciding to go into a hotel room with a strange man, but the fact is that it's really dangerous. The fact that it shouldn't be dangerous isn't really the point.

I don’t think OP is victim blaming. Like a poster said, you can concurrently believe that a) a woman who is sexually assaulted is not at fault, solely the man assaulting her is, and b) that we do live in a world where rapists exist and therefore it’s sensible to take precautions, despite the fact we really shouldn’t have to, and I hate that we do have to.

How many of you would advise your daughters not to take any precautions because they shouldn’t have to? It’s not realistic in the world we live in where it’s not all men, but it’s bloody always a man. I don’t tell my daughter how to dress on a night out, but I do make sure she knows how to keep herself safe.

Huh? You think women in London- that's the only city I have experience of- don't walk alone? We do.

I take your point, but the analogy is useful in highlighting an inconsistency in attitudes nonetheless.

Also because good things can come from spending time alone with men, including in hotel rooms! You could have a great orgasm, have a laugh, make a friend, meet your DH...

But the fact is that the biggest risk to a woman is a man that she knows, not a stranger.

i can't leave my fanny at home.

in my 20s I had lots of casual sex. So much. Often when drunk. You may have called me a slag. All consensual with men who also enjoyed casual sex.

Any woman should be allowed to do this if she pleases and be safe from rape and assault, even when drunk and be able at any time to say stop, or no not like that. And have that respected.

Any guy who disregards that is a predator. The man is the problem in that scenario

CSA is a very different beast. It’s not about what you do, it’s who you are and if that’s the case, no amount of ‘education’ is going to change anything.

Of course it’s victim blaming! How can it be anything but?! You’re essentially giving reasons why a woman should have avoided a situation, rather than focusing on the person who chose to rape her.

There’s a difference between acknowledging that risks exist and suggesting women are responsible for anticipating and avoiding them. The onus shouldn't be on women to restrict their social lives, choices or freedom because men might assault them. The onus should be on men just not feeling it's fine to bloody do as they want to another person's body.

Many men are attacked. My own son went to a college dance and was attacked by 3 or 4 strangers when walking home alone. We spent the night in A&E whilst he had his wounds cleaned and scans to his head.
Males just face different dangers.