To think that the problem is not that there aren’t enough good men about

This makes the problem the behaviour of women, rather than the behaviour of men, which seems unreasonable to me.

@MrsShawnHatosy “But that too many women are not attracted to the kind of man that makes a good life partner?”

You can’t help who you are attracted to. If I’m going to be intimate with a man, I’m going to be fussy!

Form watching the news I am firmly of the opinion that there aren't enough good men about. And I hope my daughters pursue lesbian relationships as they will be so much safer.

(The current ick thread demonstrates this quite well.)

Ick is basically trusting your gut instinct. I think it's great that women are listening to their instinct. Most of the ick factors are very justified.

I get second hand ick just reading them. I don't think those men would make great life partners, just like the Alpha type man.

I don't think we should discourage women for listening to their gut instinct and should encourage girls to listen to it from a young age.

Well what does the full post say?

Yes. I am currently seeing a lovely man, who is completely reliable, steps up every time I need support with anything, will bring dinner when I've worked late etc.

He's short and very ordinary looking, though and so many women wouldn't even consider him.

I have a friend who has been very unlucky with men, but she goes for men who you can tell just by looking at them have a very high opinion of themselves and a low one of women.

When I met my now husband he wore a short sleeve button down shirt. Massive ick. Fortunately for me I gave him a chance, fell in love, and sorted out his clothes. This probably wouldn’t be acceptable to a younger generation woman “he can wear what he wants” but that’s how it worked.

Men that don't contribute equally to the home, raising children and managing life in general are incomplete humans.

My lovely friend and her husband are perfect examples. Both work full-time. She does all the housework and all the cooking. In 20 years he has never cooked a single meal. He's supposed to cook once a week, and gets takeaway that night.

I'm so glad I'm done with marriage. It just isn't a job I want. Being some bloke's carer.

You would have sex with someone dirty? Greasy sheets? FFS, prostitutes often require men to shower before sex.

If you think cleanliness is optional, I shudder at the thought of what you're prepared to tolerate.

Surely the ick is actually having a bath (sitting in dirty water) rather than a shower (constant clean water)? Not my ick just wondering.

I think the issue was that he enjoyed baths, which is somehow deemed unmanly by the poster involved.

Now I definitely would consider it an ick if someone tried to tell me how to dress. A shirt? Not so much.

The truth is a bit twisted. Women are attracted to confident men. Men often get their confidence from misogyny - from looking down at, and feeling superior to, women. From consuming porn that is degrading to women. From lads banter. All these things build men’s ego and give them an attractive air of confidence.

The women obviously don’t realise this and what’s more are conditioned by society to assume good things about men and so fall into the trap again and again.

“Women have very little idea of how much men hate them.” Germaine Greer

I've never been attracted to the alpha make sort but was attractive in my youth so had plenty of choice. I always saw men as a project, so chose one who I thought had potential and worked on him.

This was a very common attitude, I can absolutely see why it would be seen as unacceptable these days but I think there's a lot in it.

Unfortunately lots are of men have been raised (by parents, peers and the media) the be rather self centred and lazy. There are unlikely to be sufficient 'good' ones but plenty who are capable of change. So you either say 'I shouldn't have to do the work' and stay single or select one who is capable of growth.

I’ve known women who are attracted to the same type over and over - alpha male or uber laddish types - and it never works out.

I've spent my whole life socialising with and working with the nerdy/arty, academic sort of man who is the opposite type to that. I can assure that plenty of them are misogynistic dicks, too.

I do think that some women choose abusive/unpleasant men over and over again. I also think that there are complex psychological reasons for this, and that it isn't as easy as saying 'oh well, you just go for the wrong type'.

I’ve always been incredibly fussy about who I dated and still had options. I think many posters on the Relationships forum aren’t anywhere near fussy enough.

I was thinking about this - women are attracted to confident men. In fact I discussed it with BF, we were talking about a mutual friend who has a series of women and often isn't very nice to them.

It made me wonder why I don't find "confident" men attractive, this friend is the last man I'd want and BF couldn't be more different.

Then it occurred to me that whilst he's not confident with women, he is very secure and confident in himself and his abilities. He can talk to anyone and will have a go at anything with complete (if sometimes misplaced!) confidence. So it is true, but we need to differentiate between kinds of confidence?

I would want a man to shower daily.

That might just be correlation rather than causation.

If she knew two pricks who loved baths, she will now get the ick from men who take baths.