Face the judge

It's very difficult for people who have not worked within this environment to understand how it is run. I unfortunately have worked within it and been injured on a number of occasions.

Excellent post by InfiniteTeas and others in the same vein.

Thanks for the answers to my question. I stand corrected.

I wouldn't enjoy public executions but I do think that people that have been sentenced to life imprisonment should be able to opt for euthanasia. Only if they opt for it though.

Even Joe Public can't 'opt for euthanasia'. What are you even talking about, tescocreditcard?

Absolutely not! That would be taking the easy way out. So they get sentenced to life in prison and then have the option to just comfortably die through assisted suicide to escape their punishment? I don’t think so.

They should serve their sentence unless they decide to take their own life, I don’t think it should be something that is handed to them.

How do you know what the victims' families want? This is just grief-vampirism of the ugliest sort.

Some of the people on here have disturbing mindsets.

I'm not defending Lucy Letby at all, she's a cunt who should be locked up for life. Some posters seem to be focussing on what pain can be caused to her rather than minimising pain for the families and loved ones of the victims, what benefit is there to the loved ones of someone murdered to have the already long process, delayed further in order to torture the prisoner. What comfort does the family gain by not only having those delays but to also have the prisoner dragged in the courtroom gagged and bound with matchsticks rammed in their eyes while being dragged around by their hair? They've been through enough trauma without having to cope with that on top.

The ones talking of gagging and bounding her, pulling her around by her hair, wanting her eyelids forced open eyelids open with matchsticks and for prison staff to organise mob beatings sounds like the type who'd be at the front row of medieval public executions.

I have family who worked in the prison system and left due to being assaulted so many times. The suggestion of putting a prisoner among others to be beaten is terrible. It's easy to suggest such things when you aren't the one having to have the trauma of witnessing a traumatic scene like that, or when you aren't the one having to put yourself at risk by managing a frenzied group of violent criminals after they've just beat someone to death, do you think they all just head merrily back to their cells after that? Who gets the trauma of cleaning up the blood and removing the body?

Also, the corruption and lack of respect for the tax payers our government have repeatedly shown, no fucking way do I want them changing our judicial system and giving jobs to their mates where murder and torture are part of the job description and funded by taxpayers.

I see the usual torture-porn enthusiasts are still with us.

Yep and from my experience some of them aren't far away from a prison stint themselves. Sick mindset .

If she was " dragged" in then how do we know how she would behave? What if she smirked or laughed as the parents were reading their victim statements, how the hell would they cope with that ?

I'm not sure someone who has murdered babies would care about the victim statements

Thank you for this.

She knows what she did. She's not going to be overcome with guilt and remorse because the families "look her in the eyes"; that's already happened. And to be honest, I've truly never understood what a big deal it is to look someone in the eyes. If you're lying and committing the most evil, appalling crime imaginable, why would looking in someone's eyes suddenly make you grow a conscience?

How easy it is for people who have no experience of the environment to tell us what should or should not happen in a prison. Staff are attacked regularly. Spat at . Verbally abused . Often without warning. A group of prisoners attacking another prisoner have to be controlled as officers have a duty to protect inmates . They protect education and legal staff,medical and family visitors ,medical staff and anyone else who has reason to be in the prison .
Prisoners are not all of one type. Officers deal with prisoners ( who may be on remand) with dementia ,mental health issues,learning disabilities,who do not speak English or who have other communication difficulties.They deal with people with substance misuse issues .They sometimes have to assist people to shower,to help prisoners with collecting food, or who have self harmed .They cut people down who are hanging .They make and document frequent checks on prisoners at risk of self harm. They rescue prisoners whose cell mates have started fires They put out the fires .
They are rushed off their feet because of understaffing,overcrowding ,repairs that take ages to be done.
So is it reasonable that a prisoner under threat, a high profile prisoner should be wandering around putting everyone who has to cope with the fall out ,at risk ? I understand how angry people are at the dreadful crimes of Letby but these staff are the " they" who have to keep order.
Officers regularly support prisoners with the emotional issues that we all face . Bereavement, diagnoses of terminal illnesses for example . The job is a vastly under appreciated and difficult one. While we do not have the death penalty and such evil exists ,prisons have to deal with these people in the safest way possible.
I am not a prison officer but I was a prison nurse and am grateful for what those officers ( some of them very young) did for my protection and support .Sometimes it was a relief that all the staff had gone home without being harmed due to the mood of unrest in the prison on that day.
Like everyone else I am haunted by the actions of this nurse and the poor babies and families. We need to look at why this happened again after the previous cases such as Beverley Allett from which lessons were supposedly learned .As a pp says, even if LL had been dragged into court ,nothing is going to make her develop a conscience.

What does it achieve?
She doesn't actually care.
Forcing her means people may potentially get hurt.
She won't be affected by the victim statements. If she was she wouldn't have killed.

She's going to rot in jail now.
Don't give her anymore air time

She doesn't give a shit though. She's shown no remorse, she was unlikely to break down and apologise on hearing the victim statements and even if she did, the damage has been done. Even if she was sorry it won't bring those babies back. I agree that she's a fucking coward though. I think she'll get a very tough time in prison, she's not rough or hard, her victims were newborn babies FFS. Justice will be served in prison I reckon.

They'd need to use a ballgag or some such on convicted persons to prevent the risk of them verbally disrupting the sentencing.

And as much as I strongly believe the families should have the right to SEE the murderer being sentenced, I'm really uneasy at the idea of this kind of tactic.

Still, her absence is infuriating.

I don't think the people calling for her forced attendance in court understand just how carefully the whole criminal justice process is managed in order to avoid things spiralling into violence and aggression. In the magistrates' court in particular, where there are a lot of defendants with chaotic lives and a low threshold for kicking off, and where there are a lot of cases to get through in a day, judges tend to be surprisingly tolerant of low level bad behaviour. If they jumped on every bit of abusive language, stubbornness, refusal to engage etc, they'd never get anything done - but, more importantly, they'd be cranking up the tension in an environment that already has multiple stress points.

It's rare, for example, for a district judge to have someone sent down for contempt of court - it has to be really high level for them to act on people kicking off in the dock or public gallery. Because they recognise that tensions are high, and winding them tighter makes everything more volatile, and therefore more dangerous, particularly for those who have to take direct action when it all blows up. Everything around handling and detention of prisoners is about de-escalation, keeping things calm etc. If there are heightened tensions around being taken to court, there are more likely to be incidents, as everyone is on edge. It's not just about one person kicking off - one person being manhandled while screaming and shouting can cause all sorts of escalation. It could very easily start with one person dragged into court, and end with a prison riot.

There's also the fact that most court rooms aren't actually that big. The people in the public gallery, the jury, the defendant, the lawyers are all really close to one another. It's one thing to think about it all in the abstract - someone being dragged into court to face justice - and another thing entirely to be right up close to it happening, to hear the struggling and the screaming, and the threats to the judges and lawyers and jury, and the judge raising his voice to try and be heard over it all, and have other people around you getting angry or upset. The whole thing would be brutal and distressing for everyone involved.

Justice will be served in prison I reckon

Did you not read the post by Passthesickbagmabel which explains the impact violence in prisons has?

Yes, and?

The judge has a tariff of what they can sentence the criminal for. This is limited to a term of incarceration.
Criminal penalties do not include humiliation, berating, walking the gauntlet or cruel and unusual punishments.

Why not just post on the other thread about it? Why do you need your own, OP? Talk about attention seeking.

This.

If I could sell virtual pitchforks and burning torches on here I'd make a fortune. Her tariff was going to be the same whether she appeared or not. As for the prison justice brigade, what difference to her getting done over is that going to make to the outcome of her crimes. Hopefully she sees out her entire sentence till she's a very elderly woman and death is her only release.

I hope that prison justice brigade comment wasn't aimed at me. I never said I hope she gets attacked I'm saying it's inevitable. Letby is not some hardened criminal able to put up a decent fight, she won't stand a chance against some of the women in prison. Its a fact.

Yet another thread about exactly the same issue..

I never said I hope she gets attacked

Oh come off it. You said "Justice will be served in prison I reckon". That implies you don't think that justice has been served yet, but it will be once she has been attacked in prison. Never mind the impact of such attacks on the other prisoners and the prison staff who have to pick up the pieces.