The Horror of Katseye

[FanOfGailDines]

If you haven't come across Katseye and this post means you see one of their videos I apologise. The songs are ear worms the videos are sex shows.

They are young girls themselves that have been groomed into this industry. They are then, in turn, grooming vast numbers of children. It is a trail of bread crumbs to Only Fans and the like.

Their videos also present drug taking as sexy and cool and have trans content that is kind of an extension of all the dressing up as sex objects.

They are wildly commercial and have many partnerships with companies that sell children's products: TicTac, Mattel, Lush, Gap.

I'll stop now but I could write a book on all the wrongness of Katseye. My daughter's friend went to the concert in Dublin and was thinking that she would be surrounded by teenagers but found that actually there were loads of children in the 3Arena, some as young as six.

You can watch Hootie Fruttie or Pinky Up or Animal or Gnarly YouTube.

This is the music and dance that is forming the idea of what it means to be girl today.

This definition of pornography comes from Collins Dictionary --* *
writings, pictures, films, etc, designed to stimulate sexual excitement

I would argue that Katseye's outfits and dances are designed to stimulate sexual excitement.

There's a whole documentary series on Netflix about the forming of the group, it's called pop star academy katseye.

When Sabrina Carpenter is on the Brit Awards simulating fellatio it makes it pretty hard to make the distinction between pop and porn. I would say they are both porn. Sabrina Carpenter also features in BBC Top of the Pops magazine regularly with features such as 'find the song titles' in a crossword. Find Sex
chem in a crossword. A magazine designed for 9-12 year olds but would be bought by younger children's parents because it has toys on the front. glittery goop and fluffy pencils on the front and sex chem crossword inside. It is sold in Supervalu.

"It is not if but when your children see pornography". That is what parents are told when they go to Internet Safety talks at school. It is like trying to stop them breathing polluted air.
And you only have to look at this thread to see that there are many people who don't think this kind of sexualised content is a problem for children so to safeguard your children from all of this effectively you'd have to go live up a mountain with no internet.

In all honesty @FanOfGailDines I agree and I am as far away from a buttoned-up parent as it’s possible to be. I don’t care about the dancing or the outfits they wear, that’s no different to any other act at the moment.

My 9yo DD is OBSESSED with Kpop music and I bought her a Katseye magazine on holiday as I thought they were basically for kids. When I read it I was actually horrified as they really are marketed towards girls from around eight.

In the magazine there was a photo of Lara wearing a pair of Gap denim shorts so short that you can literally see her pubes either side of the gusset - which means that the management must have signed that off as an acceptable image.

There’s an article about Yoonchae - who has been in the band since she was 15 and was at a K-pop academy even younger - where the other members say they call her ‘C*ntchae’ to make her seem more like a badass. Again, this is a puff piece magazine clearly aimed at young kids, with quizzes etc.

There’s absolutely no way I would have taken my DD to see them when they were in the UK recently, they are unsuitable for primary school age kids despite the music being so catchy and sounding like it’s from a video game. My DD doesn’t understand what the lyrics mean but I am v much hoping the Katseye phase is over very soon- I don’t want to ban the music but there’s no way they could be compared to Little Mix or the Spice Girls - they are marketed even more aggressively and much more sinisterly. The fact two of them have already packed up is unsurprising - the recent documentary in the cinema was horrible to see, it reminded me of the Take That documentary from Netflix where they talk about their mental health caving in and nobody caring because they were making so much money for the management.

Because they’re influenced by their friendship groups- whose parents don’t care/monitor what their children are watching. Unless you want your kid to have no friends or not fit in. Not exactly a great choice to have to navigate.

I think a lot of ‘safeguarding’ is performative nonsense. Designed to cover people’s arses when it goes tits up and to protect their well paid jobs. It supports people’s egos. They’re a good person and they keep kids safe. So little actual thought about what does genuinely protect children. Our society is really rotten and maybe people have been fortunate enough not to have seen the other side of what’s happening to the poor kids who slip through the cracks. Who are trying to navigate life in which the cultural zeitgeist is the only narrative they receive. It’s heart breaking. Society has a responsibility to protect these children.

Yeah, Bratz and Dress to Impress (Roblox) Dolls are, many of them, dressed in a way that wouldn't look out of place in the Amsterdam Red Light District.
In fact when you walk into Selfridges Toy Department on Oxford Street you are surrounded by dolls dressed in this way. When I was standing there another mother said about the dolls, "They are certainly sluttier these days."

https://www.selfridges.com/GB/en/product/bratz-birthday-stylin-jade-doll-29cm_R04661406/?gclsrc=aw.ds&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=18731613767&gbraid=0AAAAADr4D5gEgvPWrh2qb5j4i_kCRwXzO&gclid=CjwKCAjw_eLVBhBEEiwAeaYZfLbFm5JSrQ8z621-79uXBFYpOABKZf9XHUQNQfVnYbes1bHrfWi2VBoChBUQAvD_BwE

Hard to know where to start with this, but I guess the slut-shaming.

It's no business of yours how they or any women dress. Calling some women glamming up 'grooming' is just repulsive - nothing is comparable to sexual abuse, and certainly not a girl group doing a show.

Lack of cash (and often abusive partners) is usually what drives people to Only Fans.

As for the 'trans content' 😁 - oh no! Inform the elders!

Leave girls alone to dress as they want, enjoy what they want and live their lives. If you don't like the group them why watch them?

We fought for the right to dress as we want without being called prostitutes. Please stop undermining that. There are actual horrors in the world. Girls having fun isn't one of them.

I agree the content is not suitable for children. I said that already. I, as a parent, am responsible for making sure my child watches/listens to appropriate content. I disagree that we should ban entire genres of music because some parents are rubbish at parenting.

Children and young people who are into kpop would be easily exposed to this group.

I think this is an issue.

Another is parents allowing inappropriate for age clothing listening - saw a US dance teacher going viral only in her very early 20s complaining about how inapporiate the songs, dancing and clothes the girls wanted and what were the parents thinking allowing it.

There is a push I think to market inappropriate content to kids - and parents do need to push back say no and be aware but companies also need to be told no and to stop.

I do not think we should ban entire genres of music but some are not for younger ages - and we should be suspious of people trying to move those boundaries and make out we all pearl cluching loons for raising concerns.

"girls having fun"

See, this attitude is part of the problem. The idea that dressing like a hooker and dancing like a pole dancer is necessary for one to have fun - and that that is somehow not inappropriate for primary aged kids.

I'm not using those words as value judgements, but as descriptors. If adults want to do it, crack on. But I can't believe people are arguing that its appropriate for little girls.

Yes pop stars have always pushed the boundaries, especially with drug references, but those boundaries are going further with each generation but at the same time the audience is getting much younger. Pop music in the 60s and 70s was listened to by older teens who had money to buy records, and whatever was played on the radio. And unless you went to a gig, which was seen as an adult activity, you only heard them, you didn't see what they looked like.

Its laughable to compare these bands to Elvis, or even early Madonna. I was watching late 80s ToTP yesterday and I was really struck by how much clothing the women seemed to be wearing compared to now. Even the most edgy bands weren't dancing like strippers. Again, this isn't to 'slut shame' adult choices but to point out that girls do look up to these bands and want to be like them. Its normalising what is going on in pornography.

I feel deeply sorry for the kids who are in these bands. Away from proper supervision and being taken advantage of just so the record company can make money. If thats not grooming its pretty damn close.

I think the reach of Only Fans goes beyond those who are in really desperate situations. I think it is actually seen as pretty acceptable and mainstream. The excellent podcast series by The Naked Truth Project called the P-Word Talks has an interview with a former Only Fans recruiter called Victoria Sinis where she explains how everyday this all is and how they are recruiting girls from all walks of life.

Your slut-shaming comment made me think of a nice interview with Zara Larsson on Chicken Soup Date with Amelia Dimoldenberg and she talks about now having children fans and how that makes all the sexual references awkward. I really like her music (little bit jungelist vibe). If you look at the old tunes though like Lush Life it has a very cool video and now the one for Midnight Sun has to have all the rolling around on the floor having a seizure. Found out about her music because it was played in the school playground and my children asked me to look her up.

Anyway, the Chicken Soup interview says this when they are talking about the nicknames for Zara's fans.

Amelia says, "I like Zluts the best."

Zara replies, "Yeah, it's like fun but it feels kinda weird to like, especially now, I feel like I have a whole new generation of fans and they're like 9 year olds and I'm like 'What's Up Sluts?' and they're like... she does a squeaky kids voice.

She's a thinking human being who feels perhaps there is something a bit wrong about doing a shout out in a stadium to children and calling them zluts but finds herself doing that.

My post didn't make clear. Although I like Zara Larsson''s music I still don't think she should be played for kids at school or children taken to her shows because although the tunes are fun they still point kids in the direction of dance routines that are not meant for them.

The singer Parastoo Ahmadi is about to be brutally whipped by a man as a punishment for not dressing as the Iranian state demands.

Women fight all over the world for our clothes to be our own affair. That no matter how much or little we wear, it should never define us. Those of us who have that choice, need to stand firm against all attempts to slut-shame us.

Katseye seem fantastic. I'm no more judging their appearance than I did Britney, Madonna (Christ the misogynistic, ageist comments about her after the VMAs), Grace Jones, Beyoncé or Dolly Parton. Or Sam Smith, come to that. Owning and reclaiming the word 'slut' is something that's happened since punk.

I'm middle-aged. I remember the days when Neneh Cherry was condemned for appearing on TOTP visibly pregnant. When lots of pop stars were attacked for being androgynous. But above all, I remember the slut-shaming, the comparisons of women wearing what they want to prostitutes, and the 'this will corrupt our youth' nonsense.

Katseye can wear what they want, I shan't judge them and nor will their fans. Having a (very) revealing Madonna poster on my bedroom wall didn't make me think prostitution was a career choice. Only Fans creators, that's their affair - I only care if they're being coerced.rescued

The biggest drivers of women into sex work (trans women included - they are overrepresented in sex trafficking rescues) remain financial pressures and violent men.

There is no ‘left alone to do what they want’. What you want is formed by your peers and culture. You don’t exist in a bubble of independence free from all influences.

You are spectacularly missing the point.

People do not exist in a vacuum.

There is a world of difference between saying women should be punished for revealing outfits, and discussing how sexualisation of children is a) a bad thing and b) affected by their surroundings.

If people couldn't be influenced, we wouldn't have an advertising industry.

Or influencers.

I agree with you. My 10 year old asked to show me the Hootie Fruitie (or whatever it’s called) on my phone. I was shocked and it reminded me of the Christina Aguilera Dirty video - I just thought “are we really still doing this?”. I think I’ll say to her she can listen to the music but not watch the videos. I’m not sure where she saw the video originally, possibly one of her friends who has a smartphone (she seems to be the only one without one 🙃). I just thought we would have moved on from this now - I don’t want it to be the representation of women my daughters see, especially at such a young age. I only heard of Katseye recently but all the girls at primary school seem to be obsessed - lots of them have Katseye backpacks.

Never heard of them but just had a look.

Landed on Pinky Up. Creepy as fuck doesn't even cover it.

A load of young women dressed as pornified children, pretty much acting out a sex show whilst surrounded by teddy bears and kids toys. Explicitly glamourising drug use, lots of glamourising of weapons (licking a sword etc) and the best bit...the one that gets locked in a car boot by a troop of transwomen, lying on a pile of childrens teddy bears and eating a bag of sweets when they let her out.

Absolutely vile. Anyone who lets their kids watch this porn-addled trash wants their head looking at.

It does sound like the kind of content I won’t have in the house or be supporting concerts for my dd when she’s older, it’s my job as a parent to try and insulate my kids from the pornification of women and girls.

And…whispers rock n roll 😳

Question.

Do you think its impossible for young women to enjoy/embrace/celebrate their sexuality without them being 'indoctrinated' to do so? In other words, do you think its impossible for your young women to exercise autonomy or know their own minds/preferences without being 'programmed' to do so?

This sort of 'monkey see monkey do' take about women's thinking & sexual shaming is very reminiscent of patriarchal views & demands about women as in their 'cognitive limitations'.

Whilst I appreciate your concern about prostitution/only fans & the sexualisation of women let's not forget its actually the capitalistic system that enables this.

I’ve only recently become vaguely aware of Katseye (hope it remains that way!) but the wider point is definitely an issue. I took my dance mad 8 year old out of her school street dance class a while back as the moves just really weren’t appropriate for young girls to be doing with no real knowledge of what they mean, and the performances in front of middle aged dads just felt really off! Now at 10 her year group all seem to be competing to show as much flesh as possible and think booty shorts are cool, it’s just all a bit uncomfortable.

Katseye seem particularly egregious because they are such a product. They are phoney but impressively designed to grip hold of girls with music you can't get out of your head and dances that are perfect for clips on social media. The Katseye machine does its job effectively. But it does so through the exploitation of its members and of children who consume this product.

I think we know very little about exactly how our sexual selves are formed or how to best encourage confidence to be able to be free in our bodies and in our minds. I don't think it is anyone's job to try to choreograph this. I am not going to try to keep my children in isolation or create the perfect cultural environment for their developing sense of themselves but when I see something or hear something that I know is wrong then I am going to try my hardest to keep them from that.
As parents I think talking to our children is important and in today's world keeping them away from digital devices makes parenting much easier.

When musicians or writers or the like get interviewed after a successful career they get asked, "What formed you?" The music and art and dance that you are surrounded with as a child and young person goes with you through life. My first album was Whispering Jack by John Farnham. Still love, 'You're the Voice'.