Parkrun comments giving me the rage

[ChapmanFarm]

If I have to read one more time 'but parkrun is just meant to be fun' or 'you are only racing against yourself and your best time' I'm going to scream.

Why does that only apply to women?

If it's just a bit of fun there is absolutely no need for trans identified men to get a time or position either. They have the option to register as another gender or to just run and not register at all.

If it's all just fun and we moaning women should shut up, why do these arguments only apply one way?

No one is saying they can't run in whatever clothing/identity they like. Just that they shouldn't be recorded as women.

But somehow this is still wrong.

I thought I'd peaked long ago but this one is giving me the absolute rage.

Ooh I could. I could get a grey wig.

THE PARKRUN IS FAILING FEMALES VIDEO (2024 ) AND SAVE WOMEN’S SPORTS VIDEO (2025)

The ‘Parkrun is failing’ video briefly goes through the argument of ‘it is not a competition’ and describes how by including male people in the female category, parkrun is the very opposite of being ‘inclusive’.

It is similar to this ‘Save Women’s Sports’ video

Mara says, "I'm here with a lot of my fellow sex realists. We are quietly protesting against parkrun's gender self ID categories. Any male if he says he's a woman or even if he doesn't say he's a woman, any male is welcome in the female category."

"Official results are published every week in descending order of speed. The rankings mean in reality it is a race and that is unfair for women and girls."

And then

"You can call it anything you like, but the facts of Parkrun are, measured courses, start and finish line."

Other brave women also keep raising the valid points such as:

"it's a race if you run it like a race"

and

"That opportunity to treat it like a race should be there for everybody because it is there for men"

What are these bingo cards under thread gallery all about?

I think Parkrun simply need to make a statement that supports rules that state you need to run in your biological sex category. Of course you can’t 100% police it, but by at least, making a statement, it’s showing where they stand. At the moment, their idea of “inclusivity” is not being inclusive to half of the population…

What specifically are they proposing? That parkrun verify runners and/or monitor cheating in general?

The proposal is that Park Run make their policy for registration as male or female explicitly sex-based, rather than explicitly gender-identity based as it is now.

In line with equality law and for the the preservation of fair statistics for women.

Parkrun don’t actively police age either but they do permanently delete the records of anyone found to be misrepresenting their age for advantage. So it would be great if they could treat sex in the same way.

We would hope that making the categories explicitly sex based would encourage trans identified males not to lie. At the moment, they are told they can put themselves down as female if they want to, despite absolutely not being female.

It will not be perfect as some TIMs will lie, but the policy will be supportive of female sport rather than dismissive of it.

It's a popular fantasy to imagine that it's only a handful of bitter old hags who object. This is bullshit. The majority of people mind. They're just not as vocal as the TRAs and allies because they don't want to be subjected to vitriol and abuse. To think otherwise is delusional. Yours, a bitter old hag.

Here are some of those male people who are running as female people and the majority of them have placed high in the rankings.

https://x.com/hecheateddotorg/status/2050375462262612147?s=46

The proposal is that Park Run make their policy for registration as male or female explicitly sex-based, rather than explicitly gender-identity based as it is now.

OK, well that's certainly my view, except, I'm starting to change my mind again. I was thinking about this as I was jogging around just now.... So these thoughts literally occured during park run.

At the moment they use gender. Gender is a made up term. They might as well ask if you're a Wizard. I don't even believe I have a gender, it's like asking if your soul is male or female. Using a made up nonsense term takes all the difficulty amd argument out of it. It means nothing so it can never be wrong.

If they go to sex all of a sudden people can get their sex wrong.

Everyone in park run runs together regardless of age or sex. (or gender if you believe in it). By recordig only gender, Park run is essentially unisex, except gender gives a rough guide to sex which is handy for women, and probably a slightly better indicator of sex than name which is what people would go on without a gender column. So what I'm saying is, choosing meaningless gender allows a rough indication of sex whilst allowing a single race for both sexes without even recording sex. It's a back door to a fully integrated run with a sneaky workaround for women to see how they did against other women.

So I've changed my mind back. And it genuinely happened during parkrun.

None of those men were cheating because (rightly or wrongly) Parkrun doesn't know or care what sex you are. We can argue it should, but it doesn't.

athletic wear made it difficult for him to "signal his gender."

I had to chuckle at this. Says it all.

Another thought. In more recent years the English language has a word and a concept of gender. Does every country? I doubt it. Separating out gender and sex is such weird thing to do I can't believe it's global.

https://x.com/mara_yamauchi/status/2096144220176171058?s=46

Here is a good analysis by Mara of how male people entering as female athletes impact others.

“Parkrun: good illustration today of how self-ID corrupts age grade rankings.

A male in his 60s ran parkrun in Australia in the Female category. If he’d run in the Male category, he’d have been 6th in the age grade rankings with a score just over 70%. But because he ran in the Female category, his age grade score was just over 86%. This rocketed him up to the top spot by a massive margin (well over 10%).

The runners who got bumped down were:

1. A young man who was 1st to finish so he was robbed of being 1st by time and 1st by age grade.

2. A woman in her 60s who’s a devoted parkrunner & has done >100 parkruns;

3. A man in his 60s, also devoted & is close to having done 200 parkruns;

4. A woman who, despite being in her 40s, was near the top of the Female finishing order. She’s done >70 parkruns;

5. A man who, despite being in his 50s, was near the top of the Male finishing order. He’s done >50 parkruns.

All these very good runners who are devoted parkrunners suffering unfairness & being robbed of their hard-earned place in the age grade rankings, and all for what? So that parkrun can indulge the beliefs of men who say they are women. So much unfairness inflicted on men & women bc parkrun can’t bring itself to say no to these men & implement sex at birth categories.”

It depends on how you define cheating, I guess. If it is not against policy, does that mean it is ethical? Not in my opinion, but I know other people will differ.

Just back from parkrun this morning!

I'm yet to be convinced that this is something I should be angry about. I'm a reasonably keen parkrunner myself (coming up on 50 runs and 10 volunteers) and I'm normally in the top 10 women (at big London parkruns). However, I never look super closely at the rankings, not spend much time mulling on my position - the only thing I'm interested in is my own time relative to myself, as this is useful information for my training!

I'm a long way off the front of the pack, so maybe I'd feel differently if I was close to being first woman regularly. However, I'm not convinced that I would. I am pretty sure most people run it mostly against themselves.

I also often run with my friend, who is a trans woman. When we run together, I end up a good bit further back in the pack (around 30 mins). I'd hate to think that she didn't feel welcomed at parkrun, and in fact it would put me off participating (particularly volunteering) if I felt that parkrun was willing to exclude her.

I am really passionate about women's participation in sport, and think fondly of parkrun in this regard. There's generally a fantastic movement towards including more women in running - things like race deferrals for pregnancy and menstrual products at race toilets help a lot! And we're really lucky to have some fantastic activists and role models for this, I particularly admire Sophie Power and Jasmin Paris. Parkrun is great for encouraging women's inclusion and I really hope this battle doesn't undermine that.

Why would your friend be excluded if the categorisation were by sex rather than by gender? A person remains a person whatever gender identity he or she chooses to adopt, and presumably it wouldn't mean your friend's legs were cut off at the knee or something.

And why would your friend feel unwelcome if the categorisations were changed? Nobody else gives a stuff what gender another runner is, surely?

I'd hate to think that she didn't feel welcomed at parkrun

Unless I'm missing something sex instead of gender would make no difference to how welcomed she was.

Nobody wants your friend to stop running or not feel welcome at parkrun. All we’re saying is he shouldn’t register himself as a woman because it’s not fair on the biological women who do want to compare themselves to others.
Trans people don’t even have to register as their biological sex, they can tick the prefer not to say box if they want to

Nobody wants your friend to stop running or not feel welcome at parkrun. All we’re saying is he shouldn’t register himself as a woman because it’s not fair on the biological women

Exactly, this.

I used to be a keen parkrunner ("100 club") and I was definitely one to pore over the result - I'm never going to be at the front but have been known to win my age group (VW55).

All the talk of it being a run not a race is a bit disingenuous. Very many people treat it as a race and results are published in finishing order.

Like any non-professional event I've ever done, people are not asked to prove their age or sex, there is a level of trust that they will declare it honestly.

It feels a bit like the people on this thread do give a stuff what another runner's gender is...

I suppose it's quite hard to explain why it's a big deal, particularly if you don't know any trans people. My feeling is that for my friend and others, it's unsettling and off-putting to have to identify as something that they don't feel like. Particularly when, in all other cases outside specific medical procedures, you exist as your chosen gender.

I understand that for most of the people in this thread, you think that's a small sacrifice against upholding sex-based result categorisation at parkrun. But I'm not sure I agree. And that's where we fundamentally disagree on this.

I am really dismayed to hear that Sharron Davies and the WSU are pursuing legal action on this - I think suing parkrun is a pretty low and shortsighted move, if promoting women in sport is your goal.

I really recognise that a lot of women feel strongly, and very differently to me. I don't expect to change anyone's minds, but joined the thread to point out that women runners are not all of one mind on this.

Right, but in practical terms, that's not happening. She's registered as a woman, and will remain so for the foreseeable future. I don't see a practical way in which that would be changed, and I'm certainly not going to suggest it!

I also am not sure that sex-based registration would be the leveller you imagine. Trans men also participate in parkrun, and testosterone is a hell of a doping drug.

I suspect the end result of this may be removal of the gender categories, and possibly even the leaderboard. Which, while it would be a shame, would at least put this to bed.

The point is that men (males) have access to fair statistics and female people do not.

It is not fair or equitable and affects the many women who DO care. Why are their opinions and feelings dismissed?

But aren’t we told that it’s not a big deal if a TIM like your friend wants to access women’s sports and spaces. Therefore it’s not a big thing when he’s told no, he needs to register as male is it?

Not true. Nobody in parkrun has access to fair statistics. The only runner today I know for a fact has got all their details right is myself. (Actually no, becaise in 2015 I thoughtlessly registered myself as my gender despite "feeling" that I have no gender at all because gender doesnt exist. So that was wrong and still is today.)

Abd that will be totally on the shoulders of cheaters like your friend won’t it?

If a person cannot deal with being recognised as the sex they are, then that is not society’s problem that deal with. It is their own.

Ot certainly shouldn’t be incumbent on women to give up their own fair classification to deal with it.

Your friend has the option to not register their sex at all. Why don’t they do that?