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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Tell me you don't know what a cult is...

402 replies

Seethlaw · 14/08/2026 09:23

... without telling me you don't know what a cult is.

I grew up in a cult-ish church. It had some very unpleasant aspects to it indeed. The very concept of the GC movement as a cult utterly baffles me, and irritates me quite a bit, I must admit.

Where is our Leader? Some say JKR is that, even though she obviously didn't create the movement, since she joined it after it already existed. Okay, but then where is the cult of personality? Where is the hanging onto her every word? Where is the compulsory study of her life? Where is the regular and compulsory show of support of her as our leader?

What are the specific beliefs that random people outside the movement don't believe? "Men can't become women and vice versa" is not such a belief, since loads of people who would never call themselves GC also believe it. So what are our specific beliefs?

What is the rite of entry into the movement? How does one know that they themselves or someone else is a member of the movement?

Where are the big gatherings where the leaders speak The Word? Where are the regular gatherings where the members reinforce each other's beliefs?

What are the demands made of the members? Where are the compulsory meetings? Where are the financial requirements? Where are the specific behaviours we have to adhere to?

Where are the punishments for leaving the group? How do you even know you've left at all? And where are the stories of abuse and control told by the former members?

I could go on forever.

Accusing GC people of belonging to a cult is just as ridiculous and offensive as claiming, for example, that there's a trans genocide going on. It's deliberately appropriating the real suffering of other people to make a completely false and unsupportable point because there's no actual valid point to make. It's utterly reprehensible and shameful.

OP posts:
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Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/08/2026 17:35

I think there’s an element of motte and bailey going on with some of these responses. “Of course everyone knows you can’t change sex, only extremists think otherwise” with “you’re extremists for thinking “gender identity” is meaningless”. And with the single sex spaces comments posters are falling back on “of course no one actually believes you can change sex”. Well no, but a hell of a lot of “nuanced” discourse around “trans rights” is based on pretending you can. You can’t. I can say it politely or I can be more blunt. Men are not women, will never be women and never have been women, and women and girls should never be expected to pretend that they are.

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 14/08/2026 17:36

Should add: of course children have power too. But it's very different from the godlike influence parents have over their kids.

We're supposed to teach them to be tolerant and polite. So how do you think a child's going to react, when their parent's using hate speech? It's so unsettling and wrong.

But sure. It's the 'TRAs' who are to blame. Those TRAs who are behind every wall, under every bed, lurking in schools. Ready to 'trans' your child and invade your secret places.

There is a world of difference between people who believe in 'TRAs' coming to get them via tolerance instructions at a peanut butter factory and normal individuals living while trans. But I guess admitting that would mean admitting you've wasted your life on hate.

Not a cult huh.

TheKeatingFive · 14/08/2026 17:39

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/08/2026 17:35

I think there’s an element of motte and bailey going on with some of these responses. “Of course everyone knows you can’t change sex, only extremists think otherwise” with “you’re extremists for thinking “gender identity” is meaningless”. And with the single sex spaces comments posters are falling back on “of course no one actually believes you can change sex”. Well no, but a hell of a lot of “nuanced” discourse around “trans rights” is based on pretending you can. You can’t. I can say it politely or I can be more blunt. Men are not women, will never be women and never have been women, and women and girls should never be expected to pretend that they are.

This particular point is completely black or white.

Humans can't change sex. Women's rights to spaces and services are sex based. No men shouldn't be in there.

What's wrong with being 'black or white' on this point?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/08/2026 17:39

You seem very bothered by this peanut butter company, pretty much as much as the people you’re criticising @TransParentlyAnnoyed- are you this bothered that some people won’t eat Israeli hummus or that trans rights activists tantrum about the Harry Potter TV show or Hogwarts Legacy or whatever? Who cares?

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 14/08/2026 17:40

PrizedPickledPopcorn · 14/08/2026 17:19

The cult surely, is the one that encourages young people to reject family in favour of strangers who tell them lies.

Yeah, that's darvo.

Trans children who get rejected by their parents are forced to rely on strangers, and find community with people who are like them. They would far prefer to have supportive family.

There is no trans ideology. Just a tiny minority, all individuals, all different, who will keep being born - whatever your doomsday cult prays for.

Dadalus · 14/08/2026 17:41

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 14/08/2026 17:12

You...lost two of your kids because of your beliefs and still refuse to see you're in a cult?

Guess you're replying to someone whose beliefs were more important than their actual trans child, but even so.

This is where the prosecution rests. Anyone who denies their child comfort, respect and a listening ear is being abusive.

Parenting isn't an equal relationship. We are uniquely positioned to hurt our children, and exploiting that power is - well, abuse.

I'm negotiating my way through with adult children at the moment. We don't always agree, and I'm often forced to keep quiet when they're being thoughtless, because I don't want a row. I them raise it when things are calmer, me very much included, and we move on. This is especially true when you have adhd and autism in the family.

But I've had a child come out to me. I saw the vulnerability and pain in his eyes, how terrified he was of rejection. In accepting and supporting him, I rejected and neutralised that power. I allowed him to explain to me how he felt, and didn't impose my own views. We negotiate the world together now. Not perfectly, but together. I have no desire to even hold that power again.

A doomsday cult (which is what 'gender criticism' really is, forever prophesising an End Of Trans Days which will never, ever come) is no substitute for a child's love.

I guess some parents value control and obedience over respect, loyalty and love, but still. Isn't being loved better than holding out for some fictional day when they'll apologise and recant?

You can't love someone you can't trust. You need to go back before irreparable damage is done.

Please, consider going cold turkey on transphobia for a bit. Find something else to do. Without the constant reinforcement, you may find yourself craving some positive company instead. Hate is such a dead end, and it will not bring you happiness.

This post is so revealing. Don't know if you've shared this back story on MN before or not.
You talk about control and obedience but can't see that's what is being demanded of you.

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 14/08/2026 17:41

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/08/2026 17:39

You seem very bothered by this peanut butter company, pretty much as much as the people you’re criticising @TransParentlyAnnoyed- are you this bothered that some people won’t eat Israeli hummus or that trans rights activists tantrum about the Harry Potter TV show or Hogwarts Legacy or whatever? Who cares?

I'm amused by the peanut butter company thing.

Because it shows how nuts you are.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/08/2026 17:43

Sure. 6/10 for the pun though 👏

UtopiaPlanitia · 14/08/2026 17:44

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 14/08/2026 16:33

There's an article in Spiked today by Patrick West and in it he mentions

"In her 1997 book, Hystories: Hysterical Epidemics and Modern Culture, Elaine Showalter not only noted that ‘hysterical epidemics require at least three ingredients: physician-enthusiasts and theorists; unhappy, vulnerable patients; and supportive cultural environments’, but also that ‘syndromes multiply as they interact with social forces’ such as religious beliefs or political agendas."

It seems to me a very pertinent comparison to the social contagion of 'trans' in children and young people we've been seeing in recent years.

I must have a read of that.

Mia Hughes (of the WPATH Files) has done some public lectures discussing the historical aspects of this negative interaction between medicine and aspects of culture too.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/08/2026 17:46

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 14/08/2026 17:40

Yeah, that's darvo.

Trans children who get rejected by their parents are forced to rely on strangers, and find community with people who are like them. They would far prefer to have supportive family.

There is no trans ideology. Just a tiny minority, all individuals, all different, who will keep being born - whatever your doomsday cult prays for.

No, yours was the DARVO. As I said, the way trans rights activists do it is textbook. That’s how cults operate. Love bombing and getting people to cut out important people in their lives.

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 14/08/2026 17:46

Because of course boycotting a product which funds a transphobic bigot who hires domestic abusers to play at being a wizard

(or one which supports a regime currently committing genocide)

  • is the same as boycotting a company which gives decent working conditions to a minority

The horror!

😁

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/08/2026 17:47

Haha of course you weren’t going to let that one stand 😂

mrshoho · 14/08/2026 17:49

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 14/08/2026 17:12

You...lost two of your kids because of your beliefs and still refuse to see you're in a cult?

Guess you're replying to someone whose beliefs were more important than their actual trans child, but even so.

This is where the prosecution rests. Anyone who denies their child comfort, respect and a listening ear is being abusive.

Parenting isn't an equal relationship. We are uniquely positioned to hurt our children, and exploiting that power is - well, abuse.

I'm negotiating my way through with adult children at the moment. We don't always agree, and I'm often forced to keep quiet when they're being thoughtless, because I don't want a row. I them raise it when things are calmer, me very much included, and we move on. This is especially true when you have adhd and autism in the family.

But I've had a child come out to me. I saw the vulnerability and pain in his eyes, how terrified he was of rejection. In accepting and supporting him, I rejected and neutralised that power. I allowed him to explain to me how he felt, and didn't impose my own views. We negotiate the world together now. Not perfectly, but together. I have no desire to even hold that power again.

A doomsday cult (which is what 'gender criticism' really is, forever prophesising an End Of Trans Days which will never, ever come) is no substitute for a child's love.

I guess some parents value control and obedience over respect, loyalty and love, but still. Isn't being loved better than holding out for some fictional day when they'll apologise and recant?

You can't love someone you can't trust. You need to go back before irreparable damage is done.

Please, consider going cold turkey on transphobia for a bit. Find something else to do. Without the constant reinforcement, you may find yourself craving some positive company instead. Hate is such a dead end, and it will not bring you happiness.

What a thoroughly unpleasant, unhelpful, ignorant post in reply to the pp. You have no idea what this family have experienced and the reasons for the difficulties. How can ypu be so judgemental without being aware of the circumstances.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/08/2026 17:49

Like the unhinged people whining impotently on Reddit about Hogwarts Legacy, who of course care deeply about the issues involved, people who care about other issues will sometimes make a point of principle when exercising their own choices.

PriOn1 · 14/08/2026 18:07

Dontmakemethinkofanotherbloodyusername · 14/08/2026 16:44

Opening a reply with 'I didn't actually read your post, but here’s why you’re wrong' pretty much sums up the level of reading comprehension some will admit to while still having a strong enough reaction to have to respond with disagreement before they've even digested the point.
Point 1 wasn't saying people never disagree. Factions, infighting, and women criticizing each other exist doesn't mean HC dynamics can't exist..Incessant infighting, factionalism, and accusing each other of betrayal are trademarks of radicalized groups even.my point was, what happens when you criticize key figures? You get dogpiled, accused of betrayal, or dismissed. Your knee jerk, unread dismissal is that exact atmosphere.

The fact that you start with a lie about what I said doesn’t fill me with confidence about anything else you’ve said.

I didn’t say that I didn’t read your post. I said I didn’t have time to read your whole post. Earlier on the thread, someone suggested the women on here had nothing else in their lives, but I was at work and on a break and I read part of this thread and part of your post. I disagreed with the part of the post I read, so wasn’t commenting on the rest. That you took it as a “knee jerk dismissal” is down to your state of mind, not my reply, which was reasonable in the circumstances.

You then accuse me of having poor reading comprehension. Ad hom attacks are a sign someone is not confident in their argument or simply is a bully. Or maybe both.

You then suggest factionalism is a sign of radicalized groups, but I assume you are accusing us of cult-like behaviour, not radicalism. They are not the same.

Cults have authoritarian figureheads who can’t be questioned. That absolutely isn’t true of sex realists.

“what happens when you criticize key figures? You get dogpiled, accused of betrayal, or dismissed”

Can you point out where this has happened? There are women who like KJKs style and some who don’t. She certainly doesn’t come down on anyone who disagrees with her. Some like Glinner, some don’t like his style. There are attempts to smear all these people now and then, and mixed responses agreeing and disagreeing. There certainly isn’t any hive-mind.

Have a lovely evening. I’m off for my dinner.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 14/08/2026 18:08

KinderOfKinder · 14/08/2026 10:26

My guess is most people calling the GC Cult a cult are referring to 'cultish' or 'cultlike' thinking and behaviour which, to be fair, is pretty spot on.

But what cultish or cultlike thinking and behaviour?? That's the whole point of my post: what is that behaviour we're supposedly exhibiting? How does it manifest itself?

Fair question, and one I don't personally have the answer to (perhaps we can get some of the people who are referring to this as a cult into this thread to comment; so long as MNHQ don't ban all their posts and accounts, which seems to have happened in other threads).

My own view is that there is a pervading attitude among many, not all, of the more - shall we say, refreshingly vocal? - regulars here that GC ideology is the one, true God belief and that anything which opposes it must be - must be - attacked and torn down.

We see this when a few - very brave in my view, given where they are - people dare to suggest that perhaps trans-women and those that support them aren't quite the behorned devils some people here take them to be.
Such posts are routinely followed by a very few well-thought out responses, then a wave of replies that range from rigid, immutable thinking all the way to outright attacks and whataboutisms (often descending into comparisons with Reddit that some people here have a weird obsession with).
Honestly, it's little wonder people are slow and cautious to post anything that might be seen as dissenting against the cult/tribe/group <delete as appropriate>.

Whether people are correct to view the group who call themselves GC sex-realists as a cult is, honestly, a question we need to put to those people who use the "cult" label. But, again, I strongly suspect that MNHQ are so quick with the ban-hammer that such accounts don't last long. A little like Reddit, in a way...

trans-women and those that support them aren't quite the behorned devils some people here take them to be.

They don't have to be behorned devils for us to want to keep men, regardless of identity, out of women's spaces.

What you've just demonstrated there is a strawman fallacy.

MNHQ let lots of TRA absurdity stand. Again, another strawman.

BackToLurk · 14/08/2026 18:14

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 14/08/2026 17:41

I'm amused by the peanut butter company thing.

Because it shows how nuts you are.

So amused you lied about it.

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 14/08/2026 18:17

BackToLurk · 14/08/2026 18:14

So amused you lied about it.

I'm not lying.

Every time this forum goes Pizzagate, it's hilarious. As well as deeply worrying and dangerous, obvs.

BackToLurk · 14/08/2026 18:25

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 14/08/2026 18:17

I'm not lying.

Every time this forum goes Pizzagate, it's hilarious. As well as deeply worrying and dangerous, obvs.

Yea you are. I’m wary of getting bogged down in this but. You said

“Someone is currently proposing boycotting a company because they are considerate towards trans/nb people's needs.
That's it. Not because the company's harming women (take a look at the very decent provisions for female workers). Just because they don't hate trans people and recognise they may have extra needs”

The poster that started that thread was very clear that they had no particular problem with companies having policies for trans employees. Their particular objection was the company’s public statement that it objected to and would not follow EHRC guidance. Nothing more, nothing less. You are aware of this as they replied directly to you, clarifying their position, when you accused them there of calling for a boycott “just because the company don’t hate transpeople”.

I guess when you submerge yourself in a fiction, the truth can become a slightly woolly concept.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/08/2026 18:26

Well said @BackToLurk

Pingponghavoc · 14/08/2026 18:30

And with the single sex spaces comments posters are falling back on “of course no one actually believes you can change sex”. Well no, but a hell of a lot of “nuanced” discourse around “trans rights” is based on pretending you can.

This.

The two extremes are TW are Women and TW are Men. A nuanced position is? And what does it lead to?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/08/2026 18:31

I don’t have a problem with being considered “radicalised”. I think the accusation that GC feminism is cultlike in comparison to trans rights activism is a lazy DARVO which doesn’t stand up.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 14/08/2026 18:34

mrshoho · 14/08/2026 17:49

What a thoroughly unpleasant, unhelpful, ignorant post in reply to the pp. You have no idea what this family have experienced and the reasons for the difficulties. How can ypu be so judgemental without being aware of the circumstances.

Sadly it seems to be typical of how many transactivists operate? Zero empathy or insight into parenting. Full of bile and hate while berating women who focus on safeguarding both children and other women.

All because transactivists were never told no years ago when they started their march through our institutions - including shamefully schools and child care. The continuing tactics of bullying, intimidation, threats and actual violence, masked and unmasked, so often berating, abusive and sneering - even when they're self identifying as "reasonable" people.

It's extremely revealing and actually very sad to see. All the children and young people who've been gaslit into believing their growing bodies are somehow wrong and a sex change is the cure, actually need insightful, empathic and responsible adults surrounding them. The public face of transactivism (including some who post on here) suggests there are many aggressive and hostile adults claiming to be role models for these vulnerable young people. It's tragic to see. Young people deserve so much better.

CohensDiamondTeeth · 14/08/2026 18:39

"Well said"

Aye? My arse! Totally batshit more like. It was a poison pen post full of batshit, just more of their usual diatribe IMO.

TheKeatingFive · 14/08/2026 18:42

Pingponghavoc · 14/08/2026 18:30

And with the single sex spaces comments posters are falling back on “of course no one actually believes you can change sex”. Well no, but a hell of a lot of “nuanced” discourse around “trans rights” is based on pretending you can.

This.

The two extremes are TW are Women and TW are Men. A nuanced position is? And what does it lead to?

Well exactly.

It's zero sum. One or the other.

There is nothing to be nuanced about.