Tempest v Rural Payments Agency Tribunal Thread 6

[myladydisdainisyetliving]

Previous thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5549959-tempest-v-rural-payments-agency-tribunal-thread-5

TT substack: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/tempest-vs-defra-and-rural-payments

Tempest (a TW) is claiming discrimination, harassment and/or victimisation on grounds of gender reassignment. Central to the claim is the existence of the Sex Equality and Equity Network in the Civil Service (SEEN). SEEN has been granted right to intervene. Parts of the original claim against the co-chair of SEEN (Elspeth Duemmer-Wrigley) and another party (Andreas Mueller) were struck out or narrowed. Another claimant, PQ, is no longer part of the case.

Please note that Elspeth still has a garden in need of seeds and water to support the ability of SEEN to be an intervenor in this case. The claim originated because she said "only women menstruate" and a search with her name and those terms at the usual gardening website should point you to her plot.

Sorry they're all at my house having a cuppa and a chin wag. I'll send them on their way.

NC is Head of Tribunal Edutainment. Please take a seat and wait patiently!

And we're underway.

'chin wag' Haven't heard that for a long long time, used a lot by my mam and aunties.

From TT:

We are WFTCHTJ

It is 10:10, we have not been admitted to the video conference. Experience to date is that clerks have started video conference promptly; likely that the start time is delayed, we have no information on why.

We have been admitted to the CVP. We should begin shortly.

Participants have entered.
J - the short delay was because the panel was discussing qs we might have for witnesses
NC thank, starting with qs about posts by AM, its right that X is a notoriously bad tempered forum
NB not a heavy user, but that's its reputation

NC account in q was anonymous
NB yes
NC ED's c/x you can see that she set out over 4 pages and into 5 it's fair that ED had gone to considerable trouble to identify owner of account and put together dossier of tweets
NB yes, I would say
NC that's called doxxing, identifying an

Get in there NC!

NC ED's c/x you can see that she set out over 4 pages and into 5 it's fair that ED had gone to considerable trouble to identify owner of account and put together dossier of tweets
NB yes, I would say
NC that's called doxxing...

😯

Well said Naomi!

All of Emma Dunn's mad facial expressions earlier on in the tribunal were clearly signals - to avoid letting it be known that she was working on ST's behalf to root out 'the offenders' by tracking their social media accounts.

ED, by her own actions, is looking like a nasty piece of work.

From TT:

anon account and exposing
J what was that
NC doxxing, to NB its an incredibly hostile act
NB not sure if I would say hostile but done with a purpose
NC if put on Y, what would have been response
NB would have been removed, would have been spoken to him

NC we don't want to encourage type of ED behaviour, researching outside behaviour etc
NB yes,
NC and it's important from a free speech point of view
J query was q answered
NC difference in response to ED behaviour was not to reward that type of behaviour
NB yes

NC returning in your mind to one of those posts, saying TWAM, suggested that was inappropriate and in breech of workplace guidance, your answer was 'didn't know what they had in mind',
NB yes
NC it's pretty clear what he had in mind,
NB yes,
NC so either it is not acceptable

in the workplace to say TWAW or TWAM, or it is acceptable to say both
NB in the workplace we apply the EA, it is okay to say a man is a man
NC some workplaces might ban TWAW or TWAM or ban both statement, not judging the answer
NB yes
NC we can predict that TWAM might offend

WHAT THE FUCK ELSE CAN'T NC SAY

THIS JUDGE IS A JOKE.

NB in the workplace we apply the EA, it is okay to say a man is a man

ST will now cease to exist. Right there in the court room.

NB in the workplace we apply the EA, it is okay to say a man is a man
🎉🍾🎊🙂

Fucking hell.

So AM wasn't saying, Hello, I'm AM and I work in DEFRA and I'm a transphobe. He was saying I am mysterious anonymous user, exercising my free speech about my WORIADS belief and you have no idea where I work.

Shit.

I am only on X anonymously and my username is not used anywhere else. It would (I hope) be pretty difficult to find out who I am. So this would be devastating.

What bastards ED and co are.

From TT:

trans people and allies, and TWAW might offend the GC people
J - please can we tone down the language and ask the point in a respectful way, you can't say 'its just a matter of hairstyle
NC I am at a loss to know how to phrase my questions

J the point that is being put to you is that whatever way that is put it might offend either side of the debate, do you agree to that
NB yes, I agree
NC what do you understand GI to be
NB I understand the people can define their gender based on how they feel and who they think

they are
NC is it a matter of pure assertion, can a man present conventionally as a man and be a TW
NB I don't think that's for me to answer
J nor for this tribunal
NC you were asked by the J yesterday if it was unusual not to accept the outcome of g/x, but how often does a g/x

I'm not sure where NC is going with this line of questions; they feel to me that they could negatively implicate NB?

NB in the workplace we apply the EA, it is okay to say a man is a man

👏👏👏👏👏👏

J - please can we tone down the language and ask the point in a respectful way, you can't say 'its just a matter of hairstyle

FFS

I think you're following TT direct and have got your outrage in before the reason for it was c&p-ed here.
I also have TT on Nitter open, and I have to remind myself not to post anything that hasn't been posted already on here - it confuses things!
But I've seen what you're referring to, on Nitter, and I agree - 😧!!!

Was that him telling her off, or has he never heard that word before and does not now what it means?

What?!? I didn’t realise AM’s twitter account was anonymous and ED doxxed him?!?!

Except often it is just a matter of hairstyle. That's the fucking point (says MyrtleLion at the hairdressers).

NC really irritates the judge.......not sure how he expects her to make her point when asking questions.

He seems not to want her to expose the ideological under-pinnings behind TRA ideology.