Tempest v Rural Payments Agency Tribunal Thread 6

[myladydisdainisyetliving]

Previous thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5549959-tempest-v-rural-payments-agency-tribunal-thread-5

TT substack: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/tempest-vs-defra-and-rural-payments

Tempest (a TW) is claiming discrimination, harassment and/or victimisation on grounds of gender reassignment. Central to the claim is the existence of the Sex Equality and Equity Network in the Civil Service (SEEN). SEEN has been granted right to intervene. Parts of the original claim against the co-chair of SEEN (Elspeth Duemmer-Wrigley) and another party (Andreas Mueller) were struck out or narrowed. Another claimant, PQ, is no longer part of the case.

Please note that Elspeth still has a garden in need of seeds and water to support the ability of SEEN to be an intervenor in this case. The claim originated because she said "only women menstruate" and a search with her name and those terms at the usual gardening website should point you to her plot.

I guess because they’ve really got nothing on Elspeth or any of the DEFRA members. Elspeth’s quoted post earlier in the hearing appears to be perfectly thoughtful and carefully worded.

I really hope someone brings up ST's personal tweets because I would take bets they are not totally pleasant.

Good point!

Wasn't AM's twitter under a nom de plume. Didn't ST or ED or someone have to do some stalking detective work to establish it was him?

His tweets remind me of Glinner's. Funny, mostly but sometimes a bit, 'oh, fgs!'.

🤪

HH brought up the issue of claims that ST was considered a bit of a bully...then she seemed to have second thioughts about pursuing it. She took ST to one side, and then said she'd finished with her questions.

I accept that, it was just a general comment about SM and how it can come back to bite people - whether legally it should or not. 'The internet never forgets' for good or for ill.

HH - Final couple of Qs.

Thank fuck for that

Here you go.

Ooh! Naomi! Laters...

J - NC anything for witness
NC - a fair bit. Won't finish in a few minutes
J - I dont want to lose the time

Ah, you couldn’t make it up. After aeons of allowing HH time wasting, J now says this before NC even starts.

From TT:

[Can barely hear NC, mic is being moved]
NC - so you were asked about what you had done to mitigate consequences for trans staff re Forstater. Would u agree re law you have to comply with law not mitigate?
NB - Yes

NC - You were taken to Caroline Airs draft guidance for yammer. Suggested it allowed GC views to be expressed...
NB - Just let me find it

NC - You were taken to passage. Suggested allowed GC views to be expressed. It's right that at this time the problem that Caroline Airs and you were tackling was the silencing of GC collegaues?
NB - Yes
NC - Not suprising it looks like guidance drawn to protect GC colleagues.

NB - Yes.
NC - it perfectly apt. If GC trying shout down trans voices that would be just as apt?
NB - yes
NC - so the reason it looks like protecting GC is because trans people and views were misbehaving?
NB - wouldn't say misbehaving
NC - GC weren't trying to silence trans and views?
NB - No

Ooh. I prefer your version. I look pretty!

I liked the fact that NB relies on her teams. She appears to have faith in them and trusts her people to give her information when she needs it - and she also takes responsibility to sort things out herself if necessary.

It all seems so...I dunno...professional, and adult.

You always do to me.

The obvious answer is if you must post on SM then post anonymously e.g. Mumsnet😀

Which tends to be in short supply usually at the tribunals.

NB is quite high up in the organisation I believe and would probably not find a humble HEO a bully. Ask the underlings.

Thank you @Boiledbeetle - that image will remain with me for all eternity.

AM's Tweets are a bit puerile & daft but why shouldn't they be? It was Twitter FFS. I've been surprised throughout this that they've brought up AM and his behaviour etc when he's no longer part of this case. He's like a ghost at the feast.

Beetle and android sitting in a tree K I S S I N G

I think they were briefly married.

It didn’t work out. Despite both having a hard outer shell.

From TT:

NC - Suggested it was inappropriate to involve EDW in that not demonising...
J - [asks NC not say demonise] Put it more neutrally
NC - But it was demonising
J - Don't use demonise

NC - Suggested it was inappropriate to involve EDW. SEEN wasn't trying to make it impossible for gender ideology beliefs?
NB - I imagine what Bal Toor had in her mind was to create an expression that conveyed accurately the stance of colleagues stance of GC views.

NC - And SEEN were trying to do that in a moderate way?
NB - Yes
NC - and some trans colleagues were doing their best to silence them?
NB - I suppose I look at the moderation activity we had to do

<Naomi's only been going a few minutes and I'm already shouting FFS Judge!>

We were married briefly on one thread. Obviously it was destined to end in divorce, but android will forever hold a special place in my heart every time I see a tomato.

Like the draft, which was just a draft, was dwelt on for ages and ages although it was JUST A DRAFT.
I felt there was a point to be made about the changes made after that draft, but I think even the judge got fed up with the constant references to it.

So AM isn't part of the case but it's useful to keep going on and on about his personal tweets, so that's what HH does.

Oooooooh now this is a spicy telenovela. Oh antonio...

NC - Suggested it was inappropriate to involve EDW in that not demonising...
J - [asks NC not say demonise] Put it more neutrally
NC - But it was demonising
J - Don't use demonise

Virtually nothing for ages with HH then straight in there with NC.