New wave of Trans Allies needed

[Barearse]

Trans identifying men are still men and still need to pee. It’s no longer a problem foisted on women to accommodate them in our loos or any other of our single sex female spaces and it never should’ve been.

I’ve had a few blokes say to me recently ’But what about the poor transwomen now? Where are they going to pee?’. My response to them is: ‘This is now a men’s problem for men to deal with. How about you lot become trans allies and welcome them all back into the men’s loos. And while you’re at it, you might want to address all that prejudice, discrimination and aggression at gender non conforming blokes that gave them all the excuse to come running into our loos in the first place’.

Trans Allies should no longer be about supporting trans identified men to decimate our rights. Their new role will be to support them to use the spaces and services for their biological sex, free from prejudice, discrimination and harassment. Go trans allies!

Spot on. How will this be received by the average guy? Maybe Mumsnetters with a DH can test the waters and report back?

I asked dh. His response,

"Well of course trans-identifying men should use the men's toilets. But I don't know what support they want from me. Just go in, use the bog and bugger off out again, just like all other men. They don't need my support to have a slash."

I asked my male housemate.
He said as long as they don't do anything weird and just pee and leave like any other bloke, he can't see a problem.
He also said he's never come across, or heard of a trans bloke getting beat up in toilets. The most he thinks they'd get is a side eye as some of them look a state. His words not mine

@Barearse what about trans men in the ladies ?

it seems this is not finished as this has not given a solution

podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-story/id1501716010?i=1000704653263

I totally agree with the hubby and housemate’s response. Blokes should be free to present however they want (within decency laws) without harassment or the need for allies. And I expect most of the time they’re perfectly safe to do so.

I’m only offering the suggestion of this radical new allyship (that can be a word) to the men saying ‘but where will the poor transwomen pee now?’. If they see a problem, they can take responsibility for solving it!

@Tallerandtall Trans identified women in the ladies will be fine as they’re female. And anyway, they never wanted to not pee in the ladies for fear of us harassing or harming them! They don’t need allies to use female spaces.

Exactly - TW always say “what’s the problem? We just need to pee”, so if it was never about using women as props in their fantasy, this shouldn’t be an issue.

I am a man, mainly wear standard blokey bloke type clothes but known to rock a pink hoodie (about which I did occasionally get what I term "unsolicited fashion advice").
Men of all persuasions are welcome to use the loo concurrently with me, preferably according to the normal Bog Code. No eye contact, no talking, use the furthest available urinal, get in have a piss and get out. Oh and wash your hands you filthy gets.

Spot on, I’ve said this from day 1. Why are women being bullied into conforming when the actual root cause of transphobia is homophobic males.
Sort that out, make men’s spaces inclusive and safe for transwomen.

Yes, go into the correct toilet for your sex, do the necessary and go on your way. You will probably get men doing a double take or two, but fear not! It doesn't mean that we're going to beat you up, or verbally abuse you.

You all have experience of using the correct toilets for your sex, you know and understand the behaviour code. Don't worry, it's probably like riding a bike; after the first couple of times, it'll be automatic behaviour for yous.

I’m loving the caveats of ‘don’t do anything weird’ and ‘don’t talk, don’t stand next to me’ you do know what women would be accused of if we said that, don’t you?!

Twansfobier?

But TW allege to prefer the ladies loos so they can have girly chats and supply tampons, which they can't do in the men's. Come on lads, have a bit of loo banter!

To be fair this applies to everyone in the men's loos.

I can't see violence being an issue in workplaces, restaurants, theatres, etc.
Conceivably in bars / nightclubs maybe?

Perhaps that's where male trans allyship is really needed. We could wear badges.

Are there signs in men’s toilets telling the users to accept whoever is in there in the way women’s toilets have?

Posters reminding men to be kind?

I have no idea (and maybe there are) but if there aren’t that might be an easy start point.

Massive posters of Owen Jones’ face stating “Be a p-ally”

There are not. This is a really good idea!
But your follow up is horrific.

Yes, I apologise for the nightmare fuel😂

There will be guys who are actually gender non conforming. Gay guys. Really slight, small guys. Overweight guys. Elderly guys. Boys who are over 8 but not yet hit puberty, some with long hair and constantly mistaken for girls. Many transwomen will actually appear far more stereotypically macho than these other users of the men's.

I still do feel sorry for the post op minority. But fuck knows this mess wasn't women's fault.

Men do still remain the greatest threat to other men of course. The vast majority of violence local to me seems gang related (and therefore slips off the news rapidly despite these boys/men with less privilege also being actual humans too as well as sorely missed sons / brothers/ husbands.

There was a spate of homophobic attacks a few years ago in Clapham but they didn't attract much attention from LGBTQetc organisations (neither did the stabbing of gay men in Reading). I find that perplexing. Genuine, threatening transphobia is going to look very much like homophobia in the wild.

To be fair,those are the crimes FOR EVERYONE, so no special treatment 😁

Yeah, my DH said similar to PP.

He doesn't care if a man wearing a dress uses the bathroom next to him. He is very aware of the physical power imbalance between men and women and also the statistics regarding sexual and violent crimes against women.

He is all for trans identifying males to use to spaces for their biological sex.

He did say he feels uncomfortable when he has experienced these males making sexual comments or wearing overly sexualised clothes.

One of these men who we came accross whilst on holiday in Cornwall kept loudly going on about being a "little girl" wearing "little girl panties". He used the men's toilets, which is I guess a positive in his favour. But he still made everyone around him so uncomfortable.

But DH said as long as they do their business and leave he doesn't know anyone that would give them any trouble, let alone making a rude comment.

I really do think this outrage over the violence that trans identifying males would experience in the men's toilets is absolute rubbish.

However the stats about women being at higher risk when spaces become mixed sex AREN'T rubbish.

I just asked DH. His response was “if he’s just got his wanger out and having a wee I really don’t care.”

No. At my employer there are posters advertising 'Menopause sessions I can attend' and at a service station recently posters discussing periods. Oh and sanitary bins on the way out.

And yes these are the Gents loos

Isn't it interesting, though, that men don't want them in the men's because they often give them the creeps?