New wave of Trans Allies needed

[Barearse]

Trans identifying men are still men and still need to pee. It’s no longer a problem foisted on women to accommodate them in our loos or any other of our single sex female spaces and it never should’ve been.

I’ve had a few blokes say to me recently ’But what about the poor transwomen now? Where are they going to pee?’. My response to them is: ‘This is now a men’s problem for men to deal with. How about you lot become trans allies and welcome them all back into the men’s loos. And while you’re at it, you might want to address all that prejudice, discrimination and aggression at gender non conforming blokes that gave them all the excuse to come running into our loos in the first place’.

Trans Allies should no longer be about supporting trans identified men to decimate our rights. Their new role will be to support them to use the spaces and services for their biological sex, free from prejudice, discrimination and harassment. Go trans allies!

I don’t care about men’s toilet needs, it’s not my problem as a woman. Just OBEY THE LAW and stay out of women’s facilities (you weirdos for wanting to go into women’s spaces in the first place 🤬).

And 'as long as they don't do anything weird to make ME uncomfortable'... women feeling 'uncomfortable' was dismissed with #bekind...

I understand that there are strict, unspoken Rules of the Male Toilets that are often opposite to the Have-a-Chat-with-a-Stranger-While-Fixing-Your-Makeup approach of the women's loos but men are quick to enforce their boundaries here even in the hypothetical, in a way that women aren't allowed to.

I'm not complaining or coming at men, it's just interesting that men feel confident in saying what they won't accept, and assume that's the end of the matter. It never is for women, we always get pushback for asserting a boundary.

It does, according to my menfolk

even if they are related 😳

friends/workmates and i have continued conversations in the loos, have shared a toilet with dd many times ….so i do find it weird 😀

And agree with everyone as to what the reaction would have been if women had said the same thing

Shit it looks like friends/work mates have shared the toilets with DD

that did not happened

this is what happens when you don’t punctuate correctly

From accounts I have heard some have in part being using the men's to avoid causing discomfort to women by using their facilities. Rather than as part of their validation as being men. I suspect they don't pass that well really but the consideration for others is appreciated. Someone wrote in to a podcast and said thank god I can use the ladies now, the men's are disgusting.
Legally they should always have used the women's. If TIW want to continue using the men's that's for men to complain about.

My prediction is that if there were more third spaces it would mainly be the TIW using them, and I'd forsee the number of TIM declining once the perks of hanging out in women's spaces and winning competitions they wouldn't even have qualified for in male categories are gone.

To be quite frank it is often the trans allies who have been the most unhinged...they have not helped the situation at all.

I've found it quite interesting that the response from some men has been to say that they don't want the creepy men in their toilets either. Makes me think that perhaps the reason why a lot of men didn't kick up a fuss about weird men being in the female toilets was that they're not actually that bothered if women are used to solve the problem of weird men.

Patriarchy remains strong.

Maybe they could take to carrying round and offering incontinence pads?
(Prostate charities genuinely advocate for bins etc so men can deal with their common, typically age-related problems.)
Tennant should lead the way with another T-shirt slogan.

So, many trans men look very masculine (beards etc) because of the hormones they take. However, these trans men, being biological women, will now have to use female toilets.

Problem?

Doesn’t this open up the opportunity for a biological man, with devious intent, to enter a female toilet and, if challenged, claim to be trans?

Body shape and size are usually a bit of a giveaway, despite modifications.

Yes, but according to TRAs, this never happens. They can't dismiss it to push one argument, then claim it's a reality when it suits them.

Realistically, if women see a transman in the toilet and genuinely think it's a man, what's going to happen? Are they going to start mouthing off and threatening violence? No. They'll do what every other woman does when they feel uncomfortable because of a man - leave and either quietly mention it to management or more likely, say nothing at all and maybe make a thread here.

And the transman will, at most, be pleased that they passed as a man.

I’m referring to biological women who identify as men.

They will now have to use women’s toilets, yet many look very masculine - google images of trans men.

Doesn’t this open up the opportunity for a biological man, with devious intent, to enter a female toilet and, if challenged, claim to be trans?

A man could previously have pretended to be a transman without a GRC, and the ruling hasn't changed that.

The ruling says transmen who pass can be legally excluded from women-only spaces.

This is covered in the SC ruling. Transmen can be excluded from female spaces if they are perceived to be male even if they are female. This is why it is important for organisations to have a unisex option. It seems unfair to those who have made such alterations to their bodies but realistically if the law had been made clear from the start then they would have been made aware at transitioning that things were going to be difficult. If they have no access then they can take the organisation to tribunal. However, realistically this cannot override single sex exceptions and create a situation where some people of one sex are allowed to use the facilities of another because of how they pass.

Happy to have trans identifying men or women in the mens toilets with me. Not sure what they expect in terms of support though, it's a toilet. We don't do eye contact in the mens, let alone an enthusiastic "Glad to see you in here!"

If someone kicks off at them while they're in there then obviously I'll stick up for them

This thing with tampon chat in ladies loos. 🤔
I have never in my 60+ years ever had a girlie chat with a woman in a public toilet about tampons, other sanpro, or even lent or borrowed one. Must be a trans fantasy.

The Supreme Court judgment does not mean it is now illegal for trans women to use the ladies. If I see a transwoman in the ladies, I will not challenge her and nor will many women. I suspect this would be the case even if it had become a criminal offence, which it isn’t. Equally, I doubt many men care. They certainly haven’t given a shit whenever I’ve nipped in there when the queue for the ladies has been too long.

Would you ordinarily and automatically get involved in a ruckus in the public loo? Would it be contextual like this?

I can't imagine trans identified males going to the kind of bars or clubs where men might beat them up. But then it takes all sorts I guess

I asked DH
Don't know, don't care who is in the mens bogs as long as they come in, pee and leave and not stare at my willy at the Urinals.
I asked about TM specifically
They would be in a cubicle wouldn't they? Men never interact in the bogs anyway and rarely look at eachother long enough to notice anything so again, don't care.
What about TW?
No, you can't have men in the Ladies can you? Most of them are probably ok and I suppose if they just pee and leave then its not too bad but blokes can be pervs and sticking a dress on won't change that. And its your bogs so its up to you not me.

Where do they get this idea that we all stand in the loos having "girly chats" from? In decades of using the ladies loos I can count on one hand the amount of times I've done that and only with my actual friends. And I've certainly never had to ask for or accept tampons from strangers.
Too much teenage American tv dramas being watched by TRAs methinks.

DH said he'd do his business and leave. He admitted that he might be taken aback.

I'm generally lucky in that regard. I'm well over 6ft, fairly hefty, and have a menacing looking scar on my face (that looks dramatically less menacing once you find out I fell off a table while dancing).

Ruckus's have a way of dramatically disappearing when I ask "Is everything all right here?"

Although honestly I've never seen a fight in the mens, whereas I know of at least 2 attacks between women in the ladies toilets. As I said in my last message, the mens is very much a place of get in, pee, get out.

The ONLY person who has ever asked me for a tampon in a public woman's loo was a transwoman who goes to an activity group I attend.
(S)he said did I have one, as she'd been 'caught short'.
I just laughed and said "No, sorry, I'm 56, go figure..."