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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #19

1000 replies

nauticant · 14/02/2025 18:06

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It seems that it will resume on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July but it wasn't completely clear whether it might end a day or two later.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17
Thread 18: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5274332-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-18

OP posts:
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15
WarriorN · 15/02/2025 07:04

Posted this on the female hcps thread, putting here as I feel it's an important part of the whole case.

The area that's not been mentioned much in association with this case is the care sector, especially for women and children. And especially for disabled women and children. Who suffer the highest rates of sexual abuse.

How can we guarantee single sex provision for our most vulnerable?

If Upton wins this there is no safeguarding in the nhs.

lifeturnsonadime · 15/02/2025 07:07

RedToothBrush · 14/02/2025 21:11

So if ED suspended against HR advice, and ends up with a ruling which states she's in breach of trust policy and employment law that costs their employer ££££...

...would that be grounds for sacking for gross misconduct?

This may have already been answered but it depends.

Some employers are just fucking useless at following procedures, if they tolerate slack procedures and the failures come from above then it would not be reasonable to scapegoat for this, although on this nurses salary that somewhat makes me sick!

A more reasonable response would be to retrain all staff who are involved in these issues and draw a line in the sand to say that any further incidences of breach of procedure will be treated as gross misconduct.

StellaAndCrow · 15/02/2025 07:09

Datun · 14/02/2025 22:24

And lastly, the phone!

Masterstroke by Naomi Cunningham.

It's unlikely that she'll get that. But if she does, oh dear Lord. The most probable scenario is the dog eats it, or he dropped it overboard, or his wife mistook it for a pop tart and microwaved it.

Which will tell you everything you need to know.

Failing that, he's on a deleting frenzy, which he'll get wrong, and like every other bloody stage, NC will notice a reference to something that's unaccountably gone missing.

God, I hope she gets it 😁

Edited

Datun, I was just "researching" to find out why people were talking about dropping phones into the North Sea 😆and came across this comment in the Rebekah Vardy case about "lost evidence"

Due to the absence of direct evidence, Rooney’s legal defence has relied on a 300-year-old court ruling, Armory v Delamirie, involving a chimney sweep who found a piece of jewellery while cleaning a fireplace. When the chimney sweep got it valued, a jeweller surreptitiously removed the gems – leaving behind a number of empty sockets.
The 1722 legal ruling set a precedent that if the court can tell that evidence is missing, then the assumption should be that what is missing is of the highest possible value that would fit the hole. Rooney’s lawyers argue this precedent applies just as much in a case involving a missing gem in a piece of 18th century jewellery as it does in the case of missing WhatsApp messages sent by a footballer’s wife.

WarriorN · 15/02/2025 07:14

Rooney’s lawyers argue this precedent applies just as much in a case involving a missing gem in a piece of 18th century jewellery as it does in the case of missing WhatsApp messages sent by a footballer’s wife.

21st century in a nutshell

lifeturnsonadime · 15/02/2025 07:18

Has anyone else seem the hot takes of TRAs on X that this case proves they were always entitled to be in women's changing rooms / toilets?

Unsurprisingly it's to do with this BBC headline:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5ydnxy5019o

Dr Beth Upton has long brown hair and wears a colourful scarf and a brown parka jacket.

Trans doctor had the 'right' to use women's room

Nurse manager Esther Davidson said she was advised that Dr Beth Upton was entitled to use the women's changing rooms.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5ydnxy5019o

AlisonDonut · 15/02/2025 07:28

KnottyAuty · 14/02/2025 22:50

I'd love to see a link to this peaking please?

JoMarch and her comments were legend round here, were often discussed and punches were thrown into the air, 'get in girls' were muttered and it was regularly said 'she must be a FWR MNetter'.

And she needs to have someone play her in whichever film gets made. Because her comments were spot on at a time when so many were immediately deleted.

WarriorN · 15/02/2025 07:33

lifeturnsonadime · 15/02/2025 07:18

Has anyone else seem the hot takes of TRAs on X that this case proves they were always entitled to be in women's changing rooms / toilets?

Unsurprisingly it's to do with this BBC headline:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5ydnxy5019o

Edited

Reading that, where the hell is consideration for women whose faith means that can't be in changing rooms with males?

When DEI mainlines male privilege, clearly.

Stitchmarker · 15/02/2025 07:38

Zebracat · 15/02/2025 00:20

Has anyone else read Jonathan Browns comments on x? He’s an advocate at Faculty of Advocates. Quite clear that Fife have shown themselves massively incompetent by relying on the word of a not legally trained de advisor rather than seeking guidance from NHS Scotlands shit hot legal department. And says so much more. I tried to make a link but it proved beyond me. Worth a read. He clearly thinks Fife have lost.

I would love to hear someone from an NHS legal team define what is legally compliant or otherwise. I cannot believe that the issue faced by SP hasn’t been raised with in-house legal teams before. Or does what DEI says trump everything these days.

I wonder if the whole premise of allowing males who say they are females in female spaces to establish some kind of assumption amongst workforces that it is correct no matter what, and to create a custom and practice style acceptance. Until those brave, desperate, too angry, and are able to, challenge.

AlisonDonut · 15/02/2025 07:47

I woke up in the middle of the night [well, my cat woke me up but there you go] and it occurred to me that in the interview, HR dept might have said 'we are looking for someone with legal experience - might have been a barrister or solicitor etc' and the young ex cafe worker responded 'Oh yes, I used to be a barista'...and the rest is history.

Nuance folks, remember we need nuance.

Datun · 15/02/2025 07:49

StellaAndCrow · 15/02/2025 07:09

Datun, I was just "researching" to find out why people were talking about dropping phones into the North Sea 😆and came across this comment in the Rebekah Vardy case about "lost evidence"

Due to the absence of direct evidence, Rooney’s legal defence has relied on a 300-year-old court ruling, Armory v Delamirie, involving a chimney sweep who found a piece of jewellery while cleaning a fireplace. When the chimney sweep got it valued, a jeweller surreptitiously removed the gems – leaving behind a number of empty sockets.
The 1722 legal ruling set a precedent that if the court can tell that evidence is missing, then the assumption should be that what is missing is of the highest possible value that would fit the hole. Rooney’s lawyers argue this precedent applies just as much in a case involving a missing gem in a piece of 18th century jewellery as it does in the case of missing WhatsApp messages sent by a footballer’s wife.

Oh, that's fascinating.

and he's already confirmed the notes are still there.

'A jeweller took my rubies' is going to look a little thin now!

Cailin66 · 15/02/2025 08:00

Lunde · 15/02/2025 01:22

The problem is that they originally scheduled a 2 week hearing that now looks woefully inadequate. Naomi Cunningham has yet to receive let alone read all of the documents that Fife/Upton were meant to disclose but didn't

The judge and barristers are all booked to start new trials next week

The delay might help SP's case as a lot of the non-disclosed documents were significant

Plus NC will need to make written applications to the judge if she wants DU s phone or to add KS as respondent 3

Surely from a legal point of view the NHS would be wise to capitulate and hand Peggie victory. The NHS won’t want any more of their files or reporting of their incompetent handling out in public unless they are gluttons for more humiliation.

Newtt · 15/02/2025 08:00

SameyMcNameChange · 14/02/2025 21:38

Re the sex of Dr Upton and whether that might need to be a fact to be found, I had thought that it was an agreed fact that he was legally and biologically male, but I might be wrong on that.

I think the judge may well specifically ask if this is something the sides agree on or not.

It will put JR in quite a difficult position, I would have thought, if she has to say 'I am instructed that my client is a biological female'.

And potentially R1 and R2 may disagree on whether he is or not.

Well, that is the crux - is it an ‘agreed fact’ that DU is legally and biologically male?

If he is agreed to be legally and biologically male - NHSFife have absolutely no grounds on which to have allowed him to use the women’s changing rooms.

The entire situation is a farce which appears the then be escalated with unsubstantiated patient safety issues - that are not identified/ detailed or dated so can not be defended.

How in the world is an employment tribunal even entertaining the idea that an unidentified safety issue should be defended?

Or have I missed the point???

JustBitetheKnotsOff · 15/02/2025 08:01

Is it likely that access to DU's phone will be granted, though?

DU comes across as a deeply irritating, self centred individual but is not the one who made the actual decision to suspend a nurse without due procedure, nor the one responsible for the whole mess around policies for single sex vs single 'gender' facilities.

NotMaroonButRaspberry · 15/02/2025 08:03

I was just reading back through TT.

NC has said that they are still expecting a large volume of documents to be disclosed

JR has argued that that shouldn't have to disclose more as both parties are applying to amend/vary the Judge's order from Jan 3rd

The judge was very clear that the order is still active and should be complied with and non compliance will be dealt with.

I think NC mentioning applying for the phone is a good trick because it's a warning to disclose everything they've asked for now, or have your phone taken and analysed in the future.

If DU and Fife had fully complied with the order in the first place, NC wouldn't be asking for this.

SP clearly complied with submitting anything remotely relevant, (and arguable irrelevant), hence her personal texts and relative's social media being dragged in 🙄

The lack of anything equivalent from DU will partly speak to NCs better judgement, but partly because none of it was properly made available I suspect.

GetDressedYouMerryGentlemen · 15/02/2025 08:04

My DC have driven all useful information from my brain which now contains only lists of Pokémon types, Roblox games and football card stats so can someone refresh my memory of the wonderful "we want our stuff back" rant request?

RedToothBrush · 15/02/2025 08:05

Zebracat · 15/02/2025 00:20

Has anyone else read Jonathan Browns comments on x? He’s an advocate at Faculty of Advocates. Quite clear that Fife have shown themselves massively incompetent by relying on the word of a not legally trained de advisor rather than seeking guidance from NHS Scotlands shit hot legal department. And says so much more. I tried to make a link but it proved beyond me. Worth a read. He clearly thinks Fife have lost.

Jonathan Brown AT broonjunior
One of the many issues in this case is the complete loss of institutional competence. It’s obvious this was an issue that required careful thought, and the decision maker sought advice not from, heaven forfend, a lawyer, but from a very junior equality and diversity officer.

And the “equality and diversity lead”, two years in the job, had the baseless self confidence to give a definitively wrong answer rather than saying let’s take specialist legal advice. If this was an external adviser there’s little doubt the advice would be actionably negligent.

For context, the NHS in Scotland has a very substantial and highly competent in house legal team. It also spends millions of pounds each year instructing counsel. Yet this decision ends up in the hands of the equality and diversity lead.

It’s not even cost cutting. That would at least be understandable. It’s just the wholly misconceived and hubristic idea that a bit of training in EDI and a big drive towards being “kind” and “inclusive” and hunting out the witches is a proper foundation to advise on this stuff.

In a properly ordered universe one or more people lose their jobs over this, and it shouldn’t be the Equality and Diversity person. Not her fault she was asked to advise on something clearly way beyond her competence. I fear there will be no consequences at all.

My guess is they limp to the end of tomorrow, hope the heat goes out of it a little and try to settle it in the gap between now and the continued hearing in the summer, if necessary getting separate representation for Dr Upton. What a disgraceful shambles

See I don't agree fully with this. Others should go, but if this is the case, what is the point in the EDI department? That's not a personal thing in terms of the individual but a question about why the NHS has EDI if it's causing this level of problems. Surely any such role should be under the umbrella and supervision of the Legal Bod department or the HR department. Otherwise you effectively have a doubling up on jobs, but with one department completely at odds with the interests of the trust, staff and patients whilst claiming to be very kind.

Its bonkers. Elon would wet his pants at this.

He also says
Jonathan Brown AT broonjunior
One of the curiosities of the Peggie case is that the underlying legal issue isn’t at all difficult. Is Ms Peggie entitled to a single sex changing room? Yes. Does Dr Upton’s self declared gender identity give entry to the opposite sex changing room? No. Is there a discretion? No

As for TRA saying stuff along the lines that they've always had the right to use the changing rooms, I have to say that even then I think there's an issue with sexism.

Even if it were true that they've been 'allowed', it doesn't mean its right and that they had a 'right' to. It perfectly possibly that something unlawful and sexist could have been happening for years. We know there's been cases brought over historical sexism because there's been a failure to uphold equality rights before.

It's funny how in 2025 this isn't recognised. Historical sexism just get brushed under the carpet as 'it was of its time' even when the law at the time of events said differently.

No one wants to see misogyny and sexism even when it's obvious and starring them in the face.

The whole façade of trans ideology is unfortunately sexist - it's built on the idea that if a man puts on a dress, calls himself Doris, swears blind he's female because he 'feels like one's and maybe (but not necessarily) takes hormones or has plastic surgery, he magically becomes a woman. And women must accept this no matter what and regardless of concerns about privacy and dignity and voyeurism and safety. It's all built on gender stereotypes and power and control over women - that's sexism.

If you make the point that no right to be sexist, it creates a bit of a problem here. What are you left with?

I don't think anyone is really willing to face up to and address this fundamental paradox at the heart of it all in the drive to 'be kind'.

Unfortunately how is it kind to put any woman in any of this situations or to enable a situation where the concept is that if you don't transition you agree with these stereotypes and if you don't agree with these stereotypes you should transition? And on a practical level that's what's effectively happening at school level where these ideas have been promoted and why girls no longer have short hair for fear of being labelled as gay or trans and that they should transition.

A reckoning point is approaching. Slowly and it's going to take a long while to get to this ultimate point of realising that your own beliefs can't be allowed to impact on the reality of others. That means if you wish to live in a sexist way, that can't impact on others. We can't stop you thinking like this but it's not ok to affect others. Same as we can't stop people thinking racist things but we legally can prevent them from doing things that are racist and affect others like treating them unfavorably in the workplace. Or we can't stop people having anti gay opinions but we can stop them from refusing to serve someone gay.

You can not stop being what you are. You are what you are. It doesn't change. It is constant. That's why you have the prefix trans in the first place because everyone actually recognises this reality including those who try to deny it on some level.

Males will remain male. They shouldn't be subjected to discrimination for how they present. However they still are male and that's for males to resolve amongst themselves whilst females retain their own protections around bodily autonomy, privacy and dignity and crucially how politics and lived experience stems from this bodily reality.

Scottishtizzler · 15/02/2025 08:05

Stitchmarker · 15/02/2025 07:38

I would love to hear someone from an NHS legal team define what is legally compliant or otherwise. I cannot believe that the issue faced by SP hasn’t been raised with in-house legal teams before. Or does what DEI says trump everything these days.

I wonder if the whole premise of allowing males who say they are females in female spaces to establish some kind of assumption amongst workforces that it is correct no matter what, and to create a custom and practice style acceptance. Until those brave, desperate, too angry, and are able to, challenge.

Ii’m not legal, but my board had a two hour seminar on this from the Central Legal Office to HR staff. I suspect they’ve realised there’s a complete lack of knowledge across the NHS as to what the actual law is rather than Stonewall’s interpretation of it. And the NHS Fife case will absolutely have been the catalyst for this given timings.

The advice given by CLO during the seminar was fair and contrary to what NHS Fife have done in this instance.

RedToothBrush · 15/02/2025 08:08

GetDressedYouMerryGentlemen · 15/02/2025 08:04

My DC have driven all useful information from my brain which now contains only lists of Pokémon types, Roblox games and football card stats so can someone refresh my memory of the wonderful "we want our stuff back" rant request?

I can reassure you. There is room for this and knowing more than the original 151 original Pokémon types. I probably could have a good stab at naming about 400. Might struggle after that without picture cues...

BecauseRonald · 15/02/2025 08:11

DU really was his worst own enemy during cross examination

He couldn't help but show his true character - sneering, controlling and prevaricating.

Showing deference to men and condescension to women

His obfuscation every time he was asked something he feared was obvious, and it was like a beam for NC to zero in on whatever the issue was. GRC? DU gives a long lecture which means he doesn't have one. What is your sex? Another diatribe which means he knows he's a man

He thought he was being so clever but he was just getting more and more tangled in his lies while JR watched in horror. No wonder she tied to stop him from talking dozens of times.

Apart from that he has seriously damaged the TRA cause in the UK, perhaps irreparably. The extraordinary claims to be a biological woman and that he's happy to ignore female patients' boundaries will forever haunt him

WellIwasaGiraffeonce · 15/02/2025 08:11

CarefulN0w · 14/02/2025 21:24

I've been itching for a few threads to comment on the "obs recording" on the child with an allergic reaction to a snickers sweet.

My understanding is that Dr U had gone into the resuss area to clerk the child. Clerking refers to an assessment done by (usually junior) Drs, most often as part of patient's admission process. It is a systematic process, considering a patients medical, family and social history, past medical problems, medicines prescribed etc etc. the Dr would also physically examine the patient to consider any issues with major organs and bodily processes. Clerking is usually completed once the patient is stable, even if they need admitting and ongoing monitoring.

Observations usually refer to temperature, pulse, respirations and blood pressure. P, R and BP would not usually be recorded during active CPR due to the absence of breathing & circulation, although temp may be if the pt is hypothermic.

If the child needed clerking and was ready to have their obs checked, they may have been being treated in the area known as resuss, but they were not being resuscitated. In my view It is preposterous to suggest that there was a patient safety concern. But it sounds very much like a Dr didn't like being told what to do by a nurse/woman problem.

I really think this ought to be brought to the attention of NC for closing submissions through the womens rights network - excellent contribution @CarefulN0w - well done for satisfying that itch!

RedToothBrush · 15/02/2025 08:12

Cailin66 · 15/02/2025 08:00

Surely from a legal point of view the NHS would be wise to capitulate and hand Peggie victory. The NHS won’t want any more of their files or reporting of their incompetent handling out in public unless they are gluttons for more humiliation.

Rumours are she's been offered a settlement and rejected.

I actually hope that's true and she now on a mission to stop this happening to all women rather than it being about just her.

It's much needed and if that's the case, I really hope that it achieved this goal either by the direct route of finding comprehensively in her favour or the indirect route of causing a catastrophic unmitigated public consensus disaster for the government.

Scottishtizzler · 15/02/2025 08:13

Needmoresleep · 15/02/2025 02:27

A slightly different question.

I assume DU is continuing to work in Fife. What toilets will they be using?

Will female colleagues be expected to ‘be kind’ even if they feel uncomfortable. Or is Fife NHS sufficiently chastened, or worried about further legal action, to put interim policies in place?

Another issue if the doctor is still working……. It sounds as if the GMC have had a number of complaints and queries now regarding Upton and worrying comments made throughout the tribunal to date especially those made in relation to treatment of patients who’ve requested single sex care. If he’s working at the moment - and I haven’t seen anything to say he is - is there an argument for NHS Fife to either suspend or put in place additional measures while this concern remains? They obviously can’t deal with the GMC complaints received while there’s an ongoing legal process which the GMC have acknowledged, but from a safeguarding perspective surely there would be a need for NHS Fife to have in place some controls or measures to ensure patient safety if these complaints have been submitted to the GMC, albeit held until the legal case is resolved. I would assume they could include suspension given the pending consideration of complaints with the regulatory body? As that’s some months away now, if a situation arose where a patient complained about lack of single sex care and NHS Fife knew this was something Dr Upton had acknowledged he would do and how he would behave, they’ve surely not taken necessary steps to avoid or prevent harm to a patient knowing these complaints are effectively resting until the legal process is completed? That would leave them open to further accusations.

As I’ve said, I’m not a legal person, but I would expect measures to be taken about Dr Upton given some of his comments & the resulting GMC complaints that have been submitted.

GetDressedYouMerryGentlemen · 15/02/2025 08:14

RedToothBrush · 15/02/2025 08:08

I can reassure you. There is room for this and knowing more than the original 151 original Pokémon types. I probably could have a good stab at naming about 400. Might struggle after that without picture cues...

Stuff I knew prior to 5-ish year ago fine ✔️
But if I try to recall anything I've heard/read since about 2020 my brain returns an error message and asks if I'd like to know Birmingham City's top goal scorer in 2022-3 instead.

RedToothBrush · 15/02/2025 08:15

Scottishtizzler · 15/02/2025 08:13

Another issue if the doctor is still working……. It sounds as if the GMC have had a number of complaints and queries now regarding Upton and worrying comments made throughout the tribunal to date especially those made in relation to treatment of patients who’ve requested single sex care. If he’s working at the moment - and I haven’t seen anything to say he is - is there an argument for NHS Fife to either suspend or put in place additional measures while this concern remains? They obviously can’t deal with the GMC complaints received while there’s an ongoing legal process which the GMC have acknowledged, but from a safeguarding perspective surely there would be a need for NHS Fife to have in place some controls or measures to ensure patient safety if these complaints have been submitted to the GMC, albeit held until the legal case is resolved. I would assume they could include suspension given the pending consideration of complaints with the regulatory body? As that’s some months away now, if a situation arose where a patient complained about lack of single sex care and NHS Fife knew this was something Dr Upton had acknowledged he would do and how he would behave, they’ve surely not taken necessary steps to avoid or prevent harm to a patient knowing these complaints are effectively resting until the legal process is completed? That would leave them open to further accusations.

As I’ve said, I’m not a legal person, but I would expect measures to be taken about Dr Upton given some of his comments & the resulting GMC complaints that have been submitted.

Well if they had to suspend Peggie for what she MIGHT do on the basis of her perceived beliefs, if we are treating everyone equally...

NotMaroonButRaspberry · 15/02/2025 08:16

NC - we are expecting additional docs, quite a large volume,

......

NC - I would like you to direct the Rs to produce any materials they find as they find it,

JR - you haven't ruled on my order to vary

J - the order stands until its varied, I won't need to make any additional comment and if there isn't compliance that can be explored as we go

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