NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #18

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks. However, it is going to overrun and there will be an adjournment with the hearing resuming in July (current best estimate). The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently caused by a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15
Thread 16: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273636-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-16
Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273827-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-17

If that's true, that's a serious allegation and NC + team ought to know about it... Will the Wayback machine show evidence of it?

2nd half of am TT Tweets

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1890362423472750869.html

yes that's Isla Bumba I think

Love NCs finishes before a break.

Thank you @ickky 👏

Do none of these people care about the law? Clearly not. The entirety of NHS fife seem to feel free to break the law in any way that is advantageous to them.

I really worry about their patient care.

I'm not wanting to take up too much space here (how very female) but some gaps in my practice were identified and I was 'supported' to address them - it wasn't overly useful, as I recall. It was a long time ago but I think I remember being told supported wasn't seen as a negative, whereas supervised was (or might be?). I may have misremembered, but the 2 are/were different things, not to be confused, especially by nurse managers ffs, and supervised was definitely more serious than supervised.

But this was a while back.

Imagine the sheer amount of time it takes for T’s to get ready, they wouldn’t have time to sleep and be ready for Tribunal.

Phew! Thanks Ikky for another sterling job in keeping up with the X posts.

Yes, huge thanks @ickky ,

This isn't the main issue here, but I'm wondering how an EDI Lead in the NHS - the person who told ED that DU could not be prevented from using the female CR - thinks she's going to be able to wipe all trace of her beliefs in gender woo at this point, in any way that suggests she's not biased to the point of prejudice against women like SP? The very policies she relies upon (and I'd wager includes training with scenarios where women are portrayed as aggressors/bullies) for her 'views' don't recognise women as separate from men larping as women.

She's in a bind, irrespective of whether she's cleaning up her online footprint because she fancies a wee spring clean, or other more serious alleged reasons.

also delurking at DARVO

Another lurker, watching aghast and agog.

Many thanks to nauticant and all the knowledgable commenters here.

I’m just thinking, in the light of @WearyAuldWumman’s post above which lists several relatively local incidents where men had committed offences and wanted to be in the female estate, and that people local to Fife would know about those:

I appreciate that this is Scotland and things may not be the same, but I thought in England it was common for junior doctors on six-month rotations to change hospitals each time. Yet Dr U seems to be moving between departments at least close to Fife if not always at the same hospital. Have I misunderstood?

❤️

I worry about the mics being dropped all over the place. We had sound issues earlier didn't we? This won't help...

<please note my sarcasm 😁>

It's all still there, I've just looked - nothing seems to have been stripped.

I am surprised NC didn’t mention that Sandie didn’t actually compare Him to a rapist. That was an assumption that Upton made.

Guess it wasn’t really needed as it’s already noted….

😁

People were asking about the pipe tune?

I think that it's The Rose of Allandale.

The moon was bright, the night was clear
No breeze came over the sea
When Mary left her highland home
And wandered forth with me
The flowers bedecked the mountainside
And fragrance filled the vale
But by far the sweetest flower there
Was the Rose of Allendale

Oh, the Rose of Allendale
Sweet Rose of Allendale
By far the sweetest flower there
Was the Rose of Allendale

Where e'er I wandered east or west
Though fate began to lour
A solace still to me was she
In sorrow's lonely hour
When tempests lashed our galant barque
And rent her quivering sail
One maiden's form withstood the storm
'Twas the Rose of Allendale

Oh, the Rose of Allendale
Sweet Rose of Allendale
One maiden's form withstood the storm
'Twas the Rose of Allendale

And when my fever'd lips were parched
On Afric's burning sands
She whispered hopes of happiness
And tales of distant lands
My life had been a wilderness
Unblessed by fortune's wheel
Had fate not linked my love to hers
The Rose of Allendale

Oh, the Rose of Allendale
Sweet Rose of Allendale
Had fate not linked my love to hers
The Rose of Allendale

You wouldn't know what was missing though!

I also looked, and felt annoyed that "Practitioner" was spelled incorrectly. Who can't spell their own job title FFS?

(now paranoid about my own spelling)

I've been thinking this throughout this terrible tribunal. Thank you for the reminder @MarieDeGournay

That is going to be very uncomfortable for her.

Work experience seems to be bar work, contact tracer (covid) then straight into the E&D post, with no apparent legal background to provide the kind of advice she did

@rebmacesrevda there's nothing missing, I've looked previously - they were saying they can't see her immunology degree from what I understand in that twitter thread... it's there.

Regardless, if I was going to an ET like this I would certainly be locking and hiding personal information, without having heard any of the witnesses to date.

I think if NC reminded Fife/DU each time their evidence contradicted each other the ET would be going on for years 😂

Fortunately, it's all recorded in the court proceedings 🙂