NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #15

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks although once it was in to the second week it was looking like this would not happen. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently, as a result of a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14

Any idea of the age of ED?

' no one comes to work to be upset ' !
But it you're SP it's just too bad, eh?

I wish we could watch :(

JR - read and tell the tribunal what you made of it

ED - when i read that it was KS making us aware of having a chat with DU and telling us about next steps, and not have both Beth and Sandie on the same shift.

JR - when was the first time that you understood that Sandie was

Yes, all this waffling around the edges is a little frustrating.

We know there's no upper limit to this ideology. So let's get there

I'm confused, there was an email TO ED and then an email FROM ED to EP, is that right? Who wrote the email to ED?

NC gets to cross examine ED, yes?

If she started work in the mid 80s I'd estimate she's around 60.

yes

I don't know either!

perpetrator of the incident.

ED - I think it was morning of 31st. From LS.

JR - how did she tell you

ED - we either have a face to face catch up or we exchange email or via phone,

JR - what did LS say

ED - she told me that there had been an incident in the CR at around

Under oath he has stated sex based metrics should not be used in favour of gender id, he is vague about how babies are made and assumes obstetricians make a 'best guess' at the sex of a newborn baby.
It's not his personality that would put me off being treated my him (awful though it appears), it's his lack of clinical knowledge and the ability to separate fact from fiction.

JR - read and tell the tribunal what you made of it

It's like she's coaxing a child.

Why are SP's political views in any way relevant to her rights as a woman to a single sex changing room? Would she have been treated any differently if she'd lauded Biden and criticised Trump? Is that what they're saying?

Trump's the democratically elected president of the USA FFS. Are we all obliged to state that he's the devil or risk losing our livelihoods?

midnight, which is not normally when the nursing staff are in the CR. And it sounded like there had been a bit of a confrontation between them and that SP had asked Beth about her chromosomes and compared her to a TW in prison.

"Perpetrator

A person who carries out a harmful, immoral, or illegal act"

Well, I am not a barrister but I don't think ED did Fife NHS's case any favours by saying that. She's made this sound like a personal animus against Nurse Peggie's wider political views. A petard to be hoist by later on when NC gets a turn.

and show me on the dolly where she hurt you.....

What I've got so far is ED thinks it's ok to leave Sandie upset about a man in the women's changing rooms for weeks on end but not ok for a man to be upset about a woman in the women's changing rooms for over a day?

JR - email from KS to DU, 30 Dec refers to speaking with Lauren, and with ED says you will be meeting with SP. Did you have a meeting with SP around that date.

ED - I had a telephone convo with Sandie on the 1st.

JR - what time

ED - I don't recall

JR - what did you say

Only upsetting for DU of course. Stern old SP not permitted to be upset.

Point 2 of your e mail should be directed to Neil Gray the Cabinet Minister for Health and Social Care at the Scottish Government as health is a devolved matter.
[email protected]

So Upton is upset and ED thinks that must not wait. No delay!
Sandie is upset but left hanging August-October.

Yes, I'd love to see the policy or law that states women with the 'wrong' political opinions should be forced to take their clothes off in front of men