NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #15

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks although once it was in to the second week it was looking like this would not happen. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently, as a result of a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14

Huge thanks to @ickky and @nauticant and all at TT for top work today.

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I think anyone who needs to look after their children in July should start fattening the kids up now, so by July you can send them to a fat camp. This will leave you free to follow the Tribunal and no kids will get neglected.

I'm just looking out for the kids.

Another one about to go on long-term sick leave then 🙄

What we really need is a friendly journalist with a big house where they could host a watch party.

Time to qualify as a journalist by then?

Good spot - there's probably a dedicated 'bat phone' that lights up, triggering the appointed TRA ally rep to swing into action. There's no such thing as holidays/time off when a misgendering has occurred!

Re BMA + Speed, the BMA was actually closed over Christmas - it's on the X feed; does anyone know how you would contact someone within the BMA when the head office is shut? Is there another mechanism to do so for support.

I am questioning this as I know with my professional registration support agency we have no contact when the head office is closed.

Do we know whom, and how, DU contacted the BMA yet with evidence provided of that (ie. have the e-mails /phone numbers been shared).

I know I can get support from my organisation but only because I know personal numbers of friends (very good friends) who are willing to advise / guide in the interim closure period.

Thanks, nauticant, ickky, and every woman doing extra to try and uphold the principle of open justice.

By the by, few FOIs that may be worth keeping an eye on:

Policy on care from 'trans' medics:

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/gmc_policy_on_care_provided_by_t#incoming-2914157

Costs incurred by NHS Fife:

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/total_costs_incurred_by_nhs_fife#incoming-2905764

Policy on requesting doctor of specific sex: (from last year)

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/sex_of_doctors#incoming-2576030

Actually I might make a new thread on this.

Just buy loads of crisps and pop and lock them and the kids in the cupboard under the stairs. They'll be fine!

Oo, KS to be added as respondent!

Did NC say yesterday that KS's behaviour (may be related to the 'intemperate' email?) could be considered an act of discrimination against the Claimant, can anyone confirm?

See neglect.

I knew this would happen!

They've got themselves into a real sticky heap of 💩 haven't they...non disclosure and the rambling monologues of Dr U along with his interrupting KC haven't helped the over-run.

I have a horrible feeling KS will go on long term sick near to the revised date now she's being called as a respondent.

Will it ever get to a conclusion?!?! At least SP will get a nice wedge to alleviate some of the shit she's been through. Poor woman.

Thanks to @nauticant and @icky For every thread and update. And great work toTT too

Would they mind skipping the first week of July? DH and I are renting a couple of places that are unlikely to have reliable broadband, let-alone 4G/5G.

Can you imagine being dragged in as 3rd respondent after all this media coverage and interest? She might even be on Mumsnet!

DrU's evidence has been the circus, the rest of the witnesses will be about procedure and who did what and when. While their evidence might not have the headline-grabbing quotes, I think they will be just as (if not more) crucial to Sandie's case because they will clarify whether NHS Fife failed in their duty towards Sandie.

I'm hoping the Judge will restore public access for those sessions. I seem to remember from the Phoenix hearing that the OU witnesses were more jaw-dropping than that case's equivalent to DrU. Mainly because of the OU incompetence and evasion - I seem to recall the lowly HR person was the only one who came across as knowing what her job was.

I think "detriment" was used:

https://www.frettens.co.uk/site/blog/employment-blog/what-is-a-detriment-in-a-victimisation-claim-employment

Was JR being quietly ironic when she followed Upton saying the tribunal is harassment by telling him he could chose whether to stay and watch the rest?

Upthread in the transcript she used the word 'detriment'. Hopefully someone legal here can explain

Interesting - looking back at the calendar 25th Dec was a monday. 26th a tuesday - both would be bank holidays - assume like all other places closed. So discussion and email on Morning of 27th. It's not like you'd forget that you made a call and then emailed to confirm is it? More likely DU was on the phone as 9am ... shame they can't ask for phone records

Thank you nauticant :)

@ThreeWordHarpy

Yep, this is where the procedural errors will be exposed.

Most important bit, I think.

Can you get out of attending ET as a respondent if you're off sick? Surely not as many people would just always pull sickies if they didn't want to show up

😁 just giving them a taste of 70s childhood. They can think of it as a history lesson!

Oh, cross'posted @nauticant !

Presumably he will be required back at work!