NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #14

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks although once it was in to the second week it was looking like this would not happen. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently, as a result of a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13

I do feel for KS a bit here

Being sucked into this person's orbit was just always going to spell disaster one way or another

Vroom vroom. All aboard the DU bus - first stop KS will be going under the wheels ding ding

He's going to need some aloe vera for that burn

More memory loss. Worrying.

Is she up for x examination next?

Not sure what you mean by this? I think JR was just saying, hang on, you're quoting from the Midwife Code and my client is a Doctor, this can't possibly be relevant or helpful - and then NC said, we don't have a copy of the Doctor one but we can safely assume they are quite similar...

DU I was busy, stressed. It was late at night. Patient safety not compromised cos I can take ob s so don't immediately need to raise it. Can't recall why I didn't raise it earlier. Perhaps I was still naively thinking it was a lower level comms issue not patient safety.

Well, maybe the cross-examination will help her snap out of it :)

so now it's a communication issue and not a serious patient safety issue????

I’m not a medic but am I right in thinking that psychiatry is one of very few (only?) specialisms where a doctor has the legal ability to deprive a patient of their liberty?

All medics can allege aggression and refuse to treat, but only special medics can actually lock up. In particular psychiatrists specialising in acting in an emergency dept.

For me to reflect on my thresholds for raising concerns/urgent concerns

We all wish he'd had this moment of reflection quite some time ago. And not in the direction he is inferring

So he's admitted patient safety wasn't compromised.

😂 thanks for the laugh there!

BabaYagasHouse

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/m-biologically-female-insists-trans-153433784.html

Definitely signs of autism in my view.

KS will be saying he did not report serious incident. Re patient to her (of course as he didnt ) So entrapment here and who he is willing to harm in his evidence.

Or KS did not consider it serious enough to DATIX

NC You have prof obligations to raise concerns.
DU Some one asking abruptly to do ob not as serious as another event, but nothing to do with my assessment of xmas incident.

NC Benefit of hindsight - xmas incident /resus incident. Did you get the priorities v badly wrong?
DU No - incidents didn't conflict. Would have been sensible. I prob should have raised resus incident sooner. Not prioritising incidents over the other.

Did you get the priorities v badly wrong?

Very good question (obviously DrU's answer was 'no'!)

NC FC - sent to board for first time 11 June by Adam Watson?

DU Presumably. Don't have control over AW's emails.

J How long

NC Getting on considerably faster than yesterday. Can't reach your target. Best estimate is 4 today.

J Why. Long time. Given great deal of latitude.

TT has already passed on a specific warning to all witnesses NOT to read anything of what's going on in court, I think. If KS (or anyone else) were reading it and preparing to adjust her (or his) evidence accordingly I think that would be serious contempt of court.

DU I was busy, stressed. It was late at night. Patient safety not compromised cos I can take ob s so don't immediately need to raise it. Can't recall why I didn't raise it earlier. Perhaps I was still naively thinking it was a lower level comms issue not patient safety.

I can't believe he wouldn't know and, having worked in a health care setting I can guarantee that anyone who has a concern re: patient safety would report it within 24 hours, if not immediately.
What he's saying is ridiculous and what's more ridiculous is that he thinks anyone will believe it.

Thank you for all the updates. Does anyone have an idea when the tribunal is likely to conclude?

no - we are glad DU has done all of this - it has been a nightmare for Peggie and her family - she has sacrificed a lot for all of us. If it weren't for her sticking to her guns all of this would be hidden away

The court needs sight of hard evidence, hence the bundles. Producing a document that covers nurses/midwives is not evidence in this instance, and this is why JR interjected.