NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #14

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks although once it was in to the second week it was looking like this would not happen. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently, as a result of a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13

NC pursuing line of questioning as to why, if DrU thought concerns against patient safety so serious, did he not report them immediately?

J I don't know dr obligations.

NC It's right you had your prof obligation to raise patient safety concerns.

DU Y and I raised those. We can argue re timeframe

NC Promptly?

DU Don't have entire GMC code memorised. Assume similar but I don't know.

How would the DR code be different with regard to urgency of raising concerns? Surely they would be the same. Another pointless time wasting interjection from JR.

I was going to be PeteThePlumber but that was already taken. I haven't seen the poor guy around though, perhaps that really was his gravestone.

DU Some one asking abruptly to do ob not as serious as another event, but nothing to do with my assessment of xmas incident.

Of course it hasn't! that would require a sense of proportion and objectivity🙄

Wow when you see it written down she pulls no punches. It's the job to get to the facts. DU has got away with spouting this ideaology without anyone wanting to challenge, or being too scared or not being bothered. DU said of SP "no one had spoken to me like that before" - SP may have lost her title to NC - wow!

Remind me never to do anything stupid or horrible that I have to be grilled in a witness box. For all concerned it must be hideous

Contemporaneous Notes sounds like a particularly smooth jazz saxophonist

NC Explicable if true you didn't report at once. It was under discussion in Jan?

DU I discussed with KS and she was aware after 29/12.

NC Why not inc in report - HI - you sent to AG in Jan.

NC We have this am received email to AG attaching that.

Wait what he says he doesn’t know if a doctor has an obligation to raise patient safety concerns promptly?

Surely a Dr should know what the rules are for reporting a serious incident??

😄Niiiice!

J I don't know Dr obligations.
NC It's right you had your prof obligation to raise patient safety concerns.
DU Y and I raised those. We can argue re timeframe
NC Promptly?
DU Don't have entire GMC code memorised. Assume similar but I don't know.

I mean, am I so out of step with other healthcare professionals here? Surely if you’ve got patient safety concerns, you raise them ASAP because you’re worried about risks to patients! You don’t think it would be ok to raise them any time so long as it’s within the GMC code!

Whatever else we can take from this debacle, it's clear that Dr Upton is not a very good doctor.

But he identifies as one.

NC First we heard that 23/1 email to ED had HI attached

NC Can you explain why you said HI to ED but omitted this serious allegation.

DU Because I thought I could bring other background items up later.

NC You have already delayed bringing this serious incident

@ChowMoWan Too self obsessed

Only mentally.....he needs to assert intellectual control at at all times

But it appears, unlike her client, JR does know the difference between the codes. Interesting.

Can't remember this. Can't remember that. But oh I remember correcting that typo in the meeting I didn't tell you about or mention in my evidence... I'm embarrassed reading the TT

to the board. Your prof obligation surely is to bring it to attention.

DU I told KS. I had already raised it with a senior.

NC So alerting KS you had done your job. Anyone culpable is KS?

DU I raised my concerns. With appropriate person, senior.

I genuinely feel sorry for KS

If DU thought he could bring up “other background information” later with ED, doesn’t that suggest he was under the impression ED was investigating it all rather than taking statement about 1 incident?

You would think so wouldn't you!

ditto 😆

NC Did you meet with KS between oct and dec

DU Don't remember a mtg

NC Did you see her even if not formally.

DU Perhaps on shift. Possible. Would have to see rota.

NC Given gravity of incident, why doesn't your phone log mention.