NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #14

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks although once it was in to the second week it was looking like this would not happen. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently, as a result of a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13

Me too, and I'm so ancient I'm practically a dinosaur.

Just bringing this over from earlier thread

PlumbertimeInFife · Today 10:58

Forgotten how to take notes, confused about how to search emails. What is this performative bewilderment.

In case anyone fancies the username PerformativeBewilderment :)

For me it was the "why would I make that up?" which probably works in most contexts, but not at the end of 3 days which laid bare the extent to which other truths had been - ahem - stretched (allegedly)

There is nothing JR can say now that will dent that glorious finish from NC.

Yup, only boot-licking capitulation will do.

What an absolute pain in the arse, I feel sorry for any woman who has to work (and undress) alongside him.

Loved that she showed how oppressive the workplace was so oppressive to nurses by way of enforcing beliefs/language in court

Naomi

what a woman

What a heartbreaking post @CocoapuffPuff I'm so sorry to hear about your experience and what your mum went through in the hands of NHS fife.

Just wanted to also send you love in a fast moving thread. Sorry to derail @nauticant but I didn't want to not acknowledge cocoapuffpuff. X💐

Thanks for all the updates everyone, have been scrabbling to catch up on the last couple of days’ worth

God, I cannot imagine the vindication and satisfaction Sandie must feel at hearing NC put, in no uncertain terms, to DU that he’s the controlling bully. It must have taken everything she had not to jump of her seat and cheer. I felt like doing that from hundreds of miles away! NC had done a stellar job. I’m intrigued to see what will come next.

I think JR will have to tread carefully with her re examination especially if he is rattled. He is a bit of a loose cannon and could be looking for a chance to grandstand his justification for his behaviour.

Brilliant end to a long questioning

[We expect the session to begin with any re-examination of DU by JR]

Her 'bigoted opinions' are protected by law, though.

😝

I wonder if she’ll bother. High risk and I can’t see much reward - there’s been far too much said, what could she realistically salvage?

My fave line was 'A Pack of lies', you can't get more direct than that, I bet DrU is not used to being challenged to his face like that, in a context where he has to keep his temper.🎯

This.

They had the nerve to complain to me that they were going to get into trouble if DH had a hypo - he 'wasn't eating'.

They brought in his meal. Quiche and peas on a plate with a regular knife and fork.

DH had had an ischaemic stroke, couldn't sit up, had lost the use of his left arm and had a shaky right arm.

I asked the Charge Nurse who had complained to me why he'd not been seen by an OT to sort out suitable implements (or fed by them?). She got a young doctor. "Now that you've drawn this to our attention..."

Moi: "Hello? This is the Acute Stroke Ward!"

I insisted that they get the Diabetes Team to check him...turned out that his sugar levels were actually sky high (not unusual for a stroke victim).

The also failed to notice that he'd gone from speaking normally to speaking nonsense. A UTI from a lack of fluid...

The one good thing was that my Mrs Angry routine got him into the stroke rehab ward at Cameron. They tried to fob me off with Glenrothes Hospital, but I refused after checking with a retired nurse pal.

Sorry, I'm ranting too much. I have too many stories about the Vic. I loathe that place.

I'm so sorry for what happened to your mum.

I found out from a friend that the Vic has had several bad inspection reports with regard to their (non) treatment of the elderly. I shudder when I think of what happened to my mum and dad.

I'm in my mid-sixties now, so I guess I'm screwed if I have to go there. Someone once advised me "Don't tell them you're retired. Tell them you're a supply teacher, so you're still economically viable..."

There are some good people there, but management is appalling and one bad Charge Nurse sets the tone for an entire ward.

“but in respect and justice”

So biological and legal male Upton’s access to the female changing room was not a matter of personal safety for Upton, nor was it a matter of personal privacy for Upton. No, it was a matter of “respect” (= compliance) and “justice” (= entitlement).

We need NC fan t shirts.

So good - now it can be potentially be used in the judgement and will help other future cases. Within reason they will be able to use appropriate language and make their cases without having to get special permissions. That on it's own would have be a good result..... but this case is like one of those fireworks crates - light one fuse and get lots out of it that you didn't completely expect :)

Although I imagine sexmatters and NC all understood how perfect this case was and how good the two witnesses were very early on. I'm even glad for JR - she absolutely went for it - but in the end her clients served her an absolute turkey

What did she oh about?

I'd guess she wants him on the stand for as short a time as possible, so she'll probably stick to a few salient points that she thinks can help rescue her clients from that whole bin fire that was DU s testimony.

[some missed because audio did not start immediately]

[Panel asking Qs]

Thanks for highlighting this! It is so performative, akin to dropping your hanky and hoping a burly man will pick it up. Even basic stuff like sending an email requires his wife to help him. Either he is this useless (they how on earth can he function as a doctor in A&E) or it is all act.

I'm so sorry for the loss of your mum in such awful circumstances 💐

I think JR will have to tread carefully with her re examination especially if he is rattled. He is a bit of a loose cannon and could be looking for a chance to grandstand his justification for his behaviour.

My thought too.