NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #14

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks although once it was in to the second week it was looking like this would not happen. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently, as a result of a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13

I bet he is RAGING.

I SO wish we could watch her sashaying out of there

Given how empathetic DU claims to be where was his respect for SP. Apparently he appears to think that respecting colleagues is unidirectional. I am shocked I tell you, shocked.

I don't think there's ever been a Tribunal like this before.

Quick question: I know that the witnesses can't know what's been said so far before the are sworn in so KS and anyone else responding for Fife don't know what DU has said so far. Can NC bring up anything DU has said during his questioning with the following witnesses once they're sworn in? Point out that he's admitted no actual comparison to rapists, that she wasn't shouting etc?

BMA advisors:

Initial BMA advisor RR is Robert Ronald. He escalated to Nicola Hutcheon.

lololol

There will definitely be some questions from panel I imagine, plus a bit of reexamination

I’m guessing the “more recent furore” is Adam Graham/ Isla Bryson.

Unless he’s focused on US politics rather than Scottish politics.

After I read “No further Qs” I sighed and felt the urge to light up a cigarette. I want to be NC when I grow up!!! I’m 50 but never mind that.

We have veritable galaxy of nebulae; how lovely (even if one of you was more proactive when it came to name changing #StillSulking).

Fife hospital sounds pretty awful. @CocoapuffPuff I hope you have family and friends to support you and are able to remember your Mum when she was in better health.

NC is really on top of her game today. I think even the Judge might be beginning to get it.

I'm wondering if NC is going to challenge the 'bigoted opinions' comment about SP? e.g. that the majority of people in the world would probably agree with SP rather than DrU?
Or is that the least of his gaffes!

Gone to wee light up check oven cleaning

Anyone with eyes one can give some insight into the witness' demeanor this om?

DU: She bullied me. If you are implying I am the bully that's wrong.
NC: No further Qs

She got you to say the words though, didn't she. And you fell for it!

So DU is confirming that he has no problems with SP's professionalism or fitness to practise?

He's only concerned about her "bigoted opinions"?

Opinions which the law has already decided are WORIADS and can be expressed?

Perfect ending there from NC. Just perfect

NC: You made up that SP asked about chromosomoes
DU: No she said it. Why would I make it up. Not interested in punishment.

NC: Pack of lies. Lies which cd not only have lost SP her job, cd have had her struck off.
DU: Not lies. Not interested in punishment or striking off. Her harassment. Not safe to work with her, but not interested in punishement

NC: It's all about controlling your female colleagues
DU: No not interested in that, it's not about that, it's about treating colleagues with respect.

NC: Done your best to end SP 30 year unblemished career, to punish her for standing up to you.
DU: No. Interested in getting situation resolved so we can get back to ER work. Interested in justice. Peaceful resolved.

NC: There is a bully in this story, but it's not the 50 year old nurse wanting a women's CR to deal with a menstrual flood.
DU: She bullied me. If you are implying I am the bully that's wrong.

NC: No further Qs
J: We will take 5 minute break

She'll deal with that in the closing submissions, along with the controlled language etc.

@crabbyoldbat Today 14:32

He's already testified that she did not compare him to a rapist, but to a male prisoner in a women's prison. The rapist comparison was entirely his assumption.

Men often construe women's fears about intrusive men (who might be thieves, or aggressive bullies, or out to undermine our careers, or killers, or simply bores we don't want leeching on our time) as 'you were afraid he'd rape you'. Always that, it's the only thing we could object to.

Who's going to copy across TT tweets for the next bit? I can't keep up with the multiple postings across.

Yes! If just didn't want to work same shifts just ask to be taken off nights (Sandie only worked two nights a week anyway) and a different place to change temporarily. Clearly bullying - still insisting it is done his way, using emotional manipulation.

I wonder what re-examination JR can come up with. NC gave BU plenty of time to state his position many times over, the problem is that his position involved his personal beliefs needing to be imposed on colleagues and patients.

Bloody Norah that was quite a ride!

Love NC mic drop 🎤

I wonder if DU will stay to hear the other witnesses or if he’ll need to be escorted to his car weeping go home

Is he no longer under oath and free to read all the commentary?!

NC: No further Qs

And CUT ....