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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #14

1000 replies

nauticant · 12/02/2025 11:30

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks although once it was in to the second week it was looking like this would not happen. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently, as a result of a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13

OP posts:
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14
Cismyfatarse · 12/02/2025 14:41

"Safety" means compliance.

"Bigotry" means the truth.

War is peace.

ickky · 12/02/2025 14:41

NC: Which you do by going straight to ED, seeking her out; making up incident on 28/12 re socks/plaster room; embellishing incident w/Rohanna. All for punishment.

NotMaroonButRaspberry · 12/02/2025 14:41

"Am sure SP is competent. Other than her bigoted opinions"

Make. This. Stop

NotAComputerPerson · 12/02/2025 14:41

ickky · 12/02/2025 14:22

NC: How could SP express her belief that TW are men, in a way acceptable to you

DU: She could say 'trans person'

NC: How could SP say you should not be in the CR becuase you are male?

DU: I'm not male. Just bcs a belief is protected, doesn't make it true.

I'm not male. Just bcs a belief is protected, doesn't make it true.”

Along with having no empathy, apparently Upton has no sense of irony.

Shortshriftandlethal · 12/02/2025 14:41

NC: This is about punishing SP DU: No not interested in punishment, vengeance, retribution. In justice.

Vengeance and retribution is what he wanted. He said the quiet bit himself.

ickky · 12/02/2025 14:41

DU: No not punishment. All about wanting resolution, way forward. Nothing made up.

lifeturnsonadime · 12/02/2025 14:42

KnottyAuty · 12/02/2025 14:40

Reminder - NHS Fife said they were disappointed that DU had been named as joint respondent - and that the claims were "vexatious".

How is that looking now?

If they thought his claims were vexatious why was she suspended? That doesn't make any sense, if they have actually said that and still suspended her they won't have a leg to stand on.

ickky · 12/02/2025 14:42

NC: You made up that SP asked about chromosomoes

DU: No she said it. Why would I make it up. Not interested in punishment.

fanOfBen · 12/02/2025 14:42

lifeturnsonadime · 12/02/2025 14:42

If they thought his claims were vexatious why was she suspended? That doesn't make any sense, if they have actually said that and still suspended her they won't have a leg to stand on.

No, they thought SP's claim vexatious!!

lifeturnsonadime · 12/02/2025 14:42

NotMaroonButRaspberry · 12/02/2025 14:41

"Am sure SP is competent. Other than her bigoted opinions"

Make. This. Stop

No let him speak.

He's doing our work.

CocoapuffPuff · 12/02/2025 14:42

WearyAuldWumman · 12/02/2025 14:34

I'm so sorry. I've had horribly similar experiences with elderly relatives there.

Had to have an op in the ortho ward. I later complained to the consultant about the behaviour of some of the staff there - both towards me and towards other pateints. (The night shift was wonderful, however.)

A woman who was screaming in pain - she'd had a toe amputated - was told to stop making a fuss. Staff failed to give me the pain meds left for me. I suspect that the same happened to her.

That's the thing. They leave food sitting besides people who aren't able to feed themselves, then take it away as they "clearly aren't hungry tonight". Mum had a spinal fracture and was in traction, yet they kept just leaving her plate beside her. She couldn't reach it, she couldn't even see the fucking thing. Her food went cold, they took it away then told me she hadn't been hungry. I ended up going along every day to make sure she actually got some food and drink. She had a back injury. Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy made her ill.

God, I'm off again, sorry.

Shortshriftandlethal · 12/02/2025 14:43

NC: You made up that SP asked about chromosomoes DU: No she said it. Why would I make it up. Not interested in punishment.

Why still going on about punishment. Rabbit caught in headlights.

ickky · 12/02/2025 14:43

NC: Pack of lies. Lies which cd not only have lost SP her job, cd have had her struck off.

DU: Not lies. Not interested in punishment or striking off. Her harassment. Not safe to work with her, but not interested in punishement.

pikantna · 12/02/2025 14:43

"in a work context must respect colleagues"

But he doesn't have to respect her!

Boiledbeetle · 12/02/2025 14:43

ickky · 12/02/2025 14:42

NC: You made up that SP asked about chromosomoes

DU: No she said it. Why would I make it up. Not interested in punishment.

Liar liar, big girl pants on fire

lifeturnsonadime · 12/02/2025 14:43

fanOfBen · 12/02/2025 14:42

No, they thought SP's claim vexatious!!

thanks fan, I thought the post meant that DU's claims were vexatious.

Apols.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 12/02/2025 14:43

lifeturnsonadime · 12/02/2025 14:42

If they thought his claims were vexatious why was she suspended? That doesn't make any sense, if they have actually said that and still suspended her they won't have a leg to stand on.

They suggested the claims against DU were vexatious so including him in case as respondent was unnecessary

ickky · 12/02/2025 14:43

NC: It's all about controlling your female colleagues

DU: No not interested in that, it's not about that, it's about treating colleagues with respect.

Shortshriftandlethal · 12/02/2025 14:44

NC: Pack of lies. Lies which cd not only have lost SP her job, cd have had her struck off. DU: Not lies. Not interested in punishment or striking off. Her harassment. Not safe to work with her, but not interested in punishement.

Manxexile · 12/02/2025 14:44

lifeturnsonadime · 12/02/2025 14:42

If they thought his claims were vexatious why was she suspended? That doesn't make any sense, if they have actually said that and still suspended her they won't have a leg to stand on.

You've misunderstood.

Fife are saying SP's claim agianst U is vexatious

Boiledbeetle · 12/02/2025 14:44

ickky · 12/02/2025 14:43

NC: Pack of lies. Lies which cd not only have lost SP her job, cd have had her struck off.

DU: Not lies. Not interested in punishment or striking off. Her harassment. Not safe to work with her, but not interested in punishement.

There's only one person in all of this that isn't safe to work with and that's the man in the witness box

ickky · 12/02/2025 14:44

NC: Done your best to end SP 30 year unblemished career, to punish her for standing up to you.

DU: No. Interested in getting situation resolved so we can get back to ER work. Interested in justice. Peaceful resolved.

MinervaBoudicca · 12/02/2025 14:45

KnottyAuty · 12/02/2025 14:40

Reminder - NHS Fife said they were disappointed that DU had been named as joint respondent - and that the claims were "vexatious".

How is that looking now?

yep

Cismyfatarse · 12/02/2025 14:45

How does our Dave go back to working in psychiatric services after this display?

Datun · 12/02/2025 14:45

ickky · 12/02/2025 14:35

NC You are taking steps to remove her frorm the workplace.

DU: No, only not to have to work with her, which, is what we have now

NC: We see emails KS/ED discussing shift adjustments. That's all that was needed?

DU: Yes but that's not the respect part. I wanted apology for the harassment. Formal note of it occurring. All parts of process.

DU: Yes but that's not the respect part. I wanted apology for the harassment. Formal note of it occurring. All parts of process.

This is where Naomi says ... it would be unkind of me to ask you how that was working out for you

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