NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #14

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks although once it was in to the second week it was looking like this would not happen. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently, as a result of a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13

How about you apologising for being a man in a women only space????

All that BMA contact and yet...

He wanted her to have to apologise. For not wanting to undress in front of him.

Gross. He's utterly gross.

NC: You are disappointed SP still working.

DU: No, unhappy that harassment not resolved, unhappy dragged through the papers. Am sure SP is competent. Other than her bigoted opinions I have no probs her being at work.

NC: P471 KS ix. Re the 28/12 incident. Q8 KS says DU still pretty upset because work crossover with SP. This is where you invented new incident to make sure SP removed, and that's what happened.

DU: Yes but that's not the respect part. I wanted apology for the harassment. Formal note of it occurring. All parts of process.

He wanted her hammered into the ground.

Kiss the ring woman and acknowledge you submit

He wanted her to have to apologise. For not wanting to undress in front of him.

It's the whole movement, writ large.

Other than her bigoted opinions I have no probs her being at work.😬

DU: Did not invent. It occurred. I'm not pressing board to remove SP - not in my control and anyway not what I wanted. Only wanted peaceful resolution re the harassment of me.

No, he wanted her punished and made to apologise for something she validly felt and believed.

He is odious

How any of his associates can bear to even look at him, I don’t know.

NC P969 this is Nicola [] BMA adviser. Pls read the 2 paras to yourself.

DU Yes have read

J: A little longer please

"her bigoted opinions".

Telling the truth is not bigotry. Pointing out facts (you are a man) is not bigotry.

Do we know yet exactly what Upton said to Elspeth (?), the consultant he went and found on Christmas Eve/Christmas Day in the middle of the night. Or whether patient safety concerns about SP were raised at all then? Or whether there was anything in KS's email to the department about patient safety concerns about SP? Is Elspeth going to give evidence?

DU: Did not invent. It occurred. I'm not pressing board to remove SP - not in my control and anyway not what I wanted. Only wanted peaceful resolution re the harassment of me.

Peaceful = SP complies/submits/apologies or SP is out of the workplace (not good enough to be on a different shift)

I think this Dr is entirely reasonable - nothing to see here?

NC: You are complaining re the dept unable to guarantee your safety, you feel exposed to risk of encountering SP. Clear indication you are looking for BMA assistance in increasing pressure on board to have SP remove.

So he wasn't concerned about potential patient safety, just that she didn't agree with his delusions!

Not in my control 😢😢. The outrage!

NC P969 this is Nicola [] BMA adviser. Pls read the 2 paras to yourself. DU Yes have read J: A little longer please

You could always edit them to fit what you want to say now?

DU: No, for guidance how to achieve real safety at work - at that point had only had assurances re the next shift or so.

If Dr only wanted an apology why not write it in the formal complaint? It's normal to write what you want out of one

NC: You are complaining re the dept unable to guarantee your safety, you feel exposed to risk of encountering SP. Clear indication you are looking for BMA assistance in increasing pressure on board to have SP remove.

NC: This is about punishing SP

DU: No not interested in punishment, vengeance, retribution. In justice.

Reminder - NHS Fife said they were disappointed that DU had been named as joint respondent - and that the claims were "vexatious".

How is that looking now?