NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #14

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks although once it was in to the second week it was looking like this would not happen. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently, as a result of a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13

He's already testified that she did not compare him to a rapist, but to a male prisoner in a women's prison. The rapist comparison was entirely his assumption.

DU: Have kept saying not interested in punishment, revenge - but in respect and justice.

He wants justice now.

But she must be made of steel. I admire her strength and courage.
He's under estimated who he got into a fight with.

Because suddenly, her adrenaline would have kicked in and she's having a "shit, how do I get out of here" moments that we all do when stuck in an isolated or enclosed space (lift, stairwell in car park, underpass) and a male is there.

Yes, exactly.

I'm sure she used pronouns for the rest of the time. It was only when she was specifically addressing the fact that he's a man.

how else are you supposed to bloody do it.

You will submit!

NC: You could have decided not to put in a complaint. BMA suggests informal resolutions. DU: I didn't put in formal complaint, I did a Datix. NC: That is a formal complaint DU: I didn't know that. Was surprised when it escalated to IX

If my contemporaneous notes are correct Du is seeming to contradict previous answers here...

I think we need a Cool Story Bro after the last exchange.

I'm a bit upset that they've been looking for a male actor to play me.

Trying to blame the Trust here, hopefully when their evidence comes out they will confirm that he was told the implications of his allegations, he should have been.

NC: p738. End of your email to BMA on 26/12. You say v upset and shaken and considering formal complaint, worried about consequences of both submitting and not submitting.

This man quite clearly stated at the beginning of JRs cross questioning that SP spoke calmly, did not shout

The GMC has male doctors listed as female on its register. So if a woman asks for a female doctor she could get a man who is on the GMC register as female. Will be interesting what their reply is to your query.

NC: You could have decided not to put in a complaint. BMA suggests informal resolutions. DU: I didn't put in formal complaint, I did a Datix. NC: That is a formal complaint DU: I didn't know that. Was surprised when it escalated to IX

As suspected, the BMA advised caution. He ignored.

I can't find the words to say how much I loathe this man. He is utterly repellent.

I'm so sorry. I've had horribly similar experiences with elderly relatives there.

Had to have an op in the ortho ward. I later complained to the consultant about the behaviour of some of the staff there - both towards me and towards other pateints. (The night shift was wonderful, however.)

A woman who was screaming in pain - she'd had a toe amputated - was told to stop making a fuss. Staff failed to give me the pain meds left for me. I suspect that the same happened to her.

Something he didn't know...at last...and conveniently

Thank you judge!

NC You are taking steps to remove her frorm the workplace.

DU: No, only not to have to work with her, which, is what we have now

NC: We see emails KS/ED discussing shift adjustments. That's all that was needed?

DU: Yes but that's not the respect part. I wanted apology for the harassment. Formal note of it occurring. All parts of process.

Yes, because JR stated this was the mark of a bully - refereeing to someone differently in front of them v behind their back

You. Can. Not. Win

NC You are taking steps to remove her frorm the workplace. DU: No, only not to have to work with her, which, is what we have now

NC: We see emails KS/ED discussing shift adjustments. That's all that was needed?

DU: Yes but that's not the respect part. I wanted apology for the harassment. Formal note of it occurring. All parts of process.

And there it is. An admission that DU wouldn't accept altered shifts. I hope that is enough to prove a Detriment

DU: Yes but that's not the respect part. I wanted apology for the harassment. Formal note of it occurring. All parts of process.

So he DID know it was a formal complaint, his big girl pants must be on fire!

NC: We see emails KS/ED discussing shift adjustments. That's all that was needed? DU: Yes but that's not the respect part. I wanted apology for the harassment. Formal note of it occurring. All parts of process.

He wanted her punished, even if he says he didn't.

I wanted apology for the harassment.

I bet he did.

NC: P471 KS ix. Re the 28/12 incident. Q8 KS says DU still pretty upset because work crossover with SP. This is where you invented new incident to make sure SP removed, and that's what happened.

DU: Did not invent. It occurred. I'm not pressing board to remove SP - not in my control and anyway not what I wanted. Only wanted peaceful resolution re the harassment of me.