NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #14

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks although once it was in to the second week it was looking like this would not happen. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently, as a result of a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13

NC: The control of language that has been imposed and enforced, including on tribunal hearings up to this one, mean it's terrifying for SP to say that TW are men.

DU: I don't think she was scared. Lots of people say it. Lots said about me online in the last few weeks.

You'd think, wouldn't you?!

NC: How could SP express her belief that TW are men, in a way acceptable to you DU: She could say 'trans person' NC: How could SP say you should not be in the CR becuase you are male? DU: I'm not male. Just bcs a belief is protected, doesn't make it true.

Is the judge really going to accept his delusion as credible evidence?

I need a mountain to scream from the top of!

YOU ARE A FUCKING MALE!

XY chromosomes, male reproductive system.
MALE.

What the fuck is his definition of male?

That's the second time NC has got BU to say clearly that the appropriate course of action if uncomfortable with someone in the changing room is to raise it with them. First time being in relation to our mate Pete. To then raise someone doing so as a "hate incident" is currently looking rather silly.

NC: In this climate, partic of control over language, isn't it much more likely that fear of adverse consequences, perhaps with some also not wishing to hurt your feelings, is the reason there were not more complaints about you in CR?

You can tell I'd make a great judge eh?

Surely, he shouldn't have been reading about the case online...

Seriously, how is this individual not in Stratheden?

DU: I'm not male. Just bcs a belief is protected, doesn't make it true.

Well, quite.

NC: The control of language that has been imposed and enforced, including on tribunal hearings up to this one, mean it's terrifying for SP to say that TW are men. DU: I don't think she was scared. Lots of people say it. Lots said about me online in the last few weeks.

DU: Disagree. Everyone was accepting of trans ppl, at least until more recently furore blew up. And if not wanting to hurt my feelings that's respecting me, that's all I was wanting.

Brilliant brilliant - paves the way for this to be included in the judgement - that for fairness it is not acceptable for one party to control the language of the other. It must be that each party uses the language to best make their case - within the bounds of decency and respect

NC: The control of language that has been imposed and enforced, including on tribunal hearings up to this one

That quite wins the internet for me today.

@CocoapuffPuff I'm so, so sorry (from another with awful experiences of a beloved DM in hospital) 💐

Seriously, how is this individual not in Stratheden?

I'm guessing what kind of place that is!

wonderful stuff
am very much enjoying Dr Upton lecturing Naomi Cunningham on the EA
👀

Respect = complete and utter capitulation

Here, with this question, NC has played a blinder.

Atmosphere of intimidation and harassment starting before his complaints.

NC: In this climate, partic of control over language, isn't it much more likely that fear of adverse consequences, perhaps with some also not wishing to hurt your feelings, is the reason there were not more complaints about you in CR?

NC: Must have been clear to you that SP found your presence in the CR on 24/12 intimidating and humiliating.

DU: No if she was intimidated she wdn't have started the convo, wdn't have waited till only 2 of us.

everyone was accepting of trans people? Take a seat Dr Delusion

DU: She was intending to confront me.

NC: Are you saying she was lying about the menstrual flood?

DU: No, but she shd have gone into the cubicle straight away not confronted me.

She wasn't intimidated and humiliated enough!