NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #14

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks although once it was in to the second week it was looking like this would not happen. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently, as a result of a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13

.

I can't tell you the number of times I've wanted a shock emoji or incredulous face.

Awful treatment

DU: But would like to note that 'formal complaint' is pretty similar to my email to BMA 26/12, if we are talking about 'first mentions'. So first mention of 'resus' incident is actually 26/12, to BMA

NC: That's a written record by you, but it's nothing to do with when the board heard things?

DU: No, and 'formal complaint' wasn't sent to them until later

DU: But would like to note that 'formal complaint' is pretty similar to my email to BMA 26/12, if we are talking about 'first mentions'. So first mention of 'resus' incident is actually 26/12, to BMA

Seems to have developed Sudden Onset Memory Recall

Ooh, metadata. I'd love to see how DU's father is reacting.

https://x.com/cadenzasmith/status/1889647134460264871?s=46&t=ZX_bLozRqm8etdGICMcAvA

This is what was recorded by Fife NHS. I struggle to understand if this was recorded as a hate ‘crime’ incident, how they felt it could be dealt with internally. Accusations of crime are serious and should be dealt with by the proper authorities.

NC: So p733 we are looking at is the earlier version of 'formal complaint', 31/12-3/1, version without names. Then 'edited' version - created and last modified 23/1, and that's the version the board received, in the June?

DU: Correct

NC P439 'hate incident' - has the same info re Xmas Eve, but no other incidents, and was created & last mod 23/1

DU: Yes

That was a bad image crop, let's try again

I remember the Wire; we binge-watched 2-3 episodes a night and got pretty good at the lingo!

I think NC is about to cover the Hokey Cokey resuss incident in and out of his complaint

I think this is regrettable, it's a bit playground, my crowdfunder is bigger than your crowdfunder. Why not just stick to donations to the Rheumatology Society? £11,327 currently

I now wish I'd made some DrU cross-X bingo cards. Words to include:

nebulous
investigation
bundle
roving
biological
metadata!

So many more but I'll let you use your imaginations :)

Apparently these emails weren't actually about DU's "wellbeing" as JR said when she argued about providing them, and later said it was her fault when they weren't disclosed...

I suppose she wasn't wrong. I imagine his wellbeing isn't great having to face them again now

NC: We learned that it was 'hate incident' that you emailed to ED on 23/1 and you told JR that you only ever sent 'formal complaint' 26/12 BMA and Adam Watson 11/6

DU: BMA was 3/1

NC: Indeed

NC P439 'hate incident' - has the same info re Xmas Eve, but no other incidents, and was created & last mod 23/1

Has continued modifying his notes right up til fairly recently

NC: You are sure those were the only times sent

DU: Only ones I could find searching my emails

NC: We can assume BMA would not have forwarded it to anyone. Confidential

DU: I assume so

Has anyone verified that this is connected to SP, please?

Did anyone consult as to whether SP would prefer donations to continue to the Society in honour of the memory of her father?

I've no idea who the CF originator (Paula Hill) is nor the (approved?) connection to SP. No detriment if it's well-intentioned if everyone else knows her but I don't.

I agree at least in part, but if it is public display of support for Sandie then I am all for it.

NC: If we turn to p799.

NC: We see here Adam Watson sending on to the board 11/6

DU: Yes

NC: He says 'I assume this was forwarded to the ix team, it's not dated but seems to be what started the process'. You say he must be mistaken?

DU: Yes

NC: We learned that it was 'hate incident' that you emailed to ED on 23/1 and you told JR that you only ever sent 'formal complaint' 26/12 BMA and Adam Watson 11/6 DU: BMA was 3/1 NC: Indeed

Memory seems suddenly sharper since lunch.

I get the feeling NC knows of the existence of something that still hasn't been disclosed.

NC: Nobody but BMA and Adam Watson had seen it?

DU: AFAIK

NC: So until 11/6 nobody on board had seen it?

DU: AFAIK

Her daughter has commented on Twitter about the fund raiser for Sandie and doesn't seem to have any issue with it.

Sounds like NC knows something