NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #14

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks although once it was in to the second week it was looking like this would not happen. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently, as a result of a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13

Thank you to @ickky for sterling work! (Just before it all kicks off again)

I also think it's their changing room and other policy which is sexual harassment.

Or would be a bad look…. if that had been the chronology; it seems pretty clear that patient safety concerns were scratched together later.

Because JR submitted them to use against SP in her cross.

She reminded SP that the guidance states she should be kind and respectful and told her that she'd gone against this by calling a man, a man.

well if that's the case it goes only to his credibility.

[People are beginning to come back into the tribunal room; proceedings will begin when the Judge and panel members come in]

https://x.com/tribunaltweets/status/1889669049182752985?t=ZIfMlbGKznnl0y8G17PF7A&s=19

I wonder if the BMA advice was a woman not wanting to share a changing room with you simply isn't enough mate...

You've taken my opinion personally 🤷.

I assume you didn't want a reply on a discussion forum? Sorry I didn't realise you had those rules.

but what's that got to do with the midwifery rules?

Exactly that

There is something in it that he doesn't want anyone to see, hence the non- disclosure.

More importantly the first suspensions were just to do with the CR.
From my understanding of the timeline - the professional stuff came into the picture after she was off work. Possibly there was a hint she would be allowed back after a "cool down" period (mentioned in policy doc as one option) so DU allegedly kitchen sinked these extra allegations it keep her out. Her first suspension started on 4th Jan remember

It's up to the witness. They can stay or go. It'll be a dilemma for DU. How can he control things if he's not in the room? But he can't speak and as we've seen words are his tools. Maybe he'll think his mere presence will be enough. Or he'll be constantly tapping JR on the shoulder.

If I was her I'd make sure the seats behind me were full of other people.

Just going back to the BMA and its attempt to oppose the Cass review,
WHY OH WHY OH WHY did they appoint a geriatrician to repeat the work of Dr Cass?

https://www.bma.org.uk/news-and-opinion/cass-review-insight-from-the-front-line

https://www.bma.org.uk/news-and-opinion/bma-to-undertake-evidence-led-evaluation-of-the-cass-review

I'm not following live and naturally the media coverage is....well, nebulous is a pretty apt word in this case.

Who is actually answering the case for NHS Fife? Is it all being pinned on one person, this KS (who I believe is Upton's female boss)? This is a "rotten from the head down" scenario and whilst I believe individuals have answers they need to give, I can't help but think that overall, the individuals will be sacrificed and the organisation will swan off into the sunset having blamed a few sacrificial lambs for the debacle.

I want the entire thing changed. I want the entire NHS returned to sanity. This offloading of their shitty policies onto individual staff members is nauseating.

I'm sure someone said you would automatically put someone on temporary suspension while you opened an investigation. Which might be the first investigation?

It's the NMC - Nursing and Midwifery Council Code of Conduct.

Sp is a registered nurse so is governed by that doc.

And they're starting

Back in thread 13... @KnottyAuty said:

"In my mind Pete was tall and broad, bald with tattoos - Brian’s more, well, rotund? No matter - he”s in!"

Ta! Presumably I'm old and remember Brian in Flash Gordon. Not rotund.

Would Dwayne Johnson work for Pete the Plumber nowadays?

NC was probably just not wanting to concede but JR was actually correct on that point!

JR: [discussing possible problem with a member of the public who had attended this am - missed the start of this because audio not on]

We all want to return to sanity, but this is much bigger than the NHS.
Please write to your MP, and your MSP if you live in Scotland!

Apologies, I hadn't realised that.

I thought the N stood for national!

J: So - timings?
NC: I hope to be finished in an hour.
J: Good, let's proceed