NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #14

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks although once it was in to the second week it was looking like this would not happen. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently, as a result of a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13

So why was she suspended for months on end, and told she could only come back under supervision

The fact it's got this far is utterly absurd. Massive waste of public money.

He doesn't have a clue what nurses do - other than 'some' 'might' draw blood.

A qn to lawyer people:

Would Beth be permitted to sit through the witness's evidence after the cross examination or do respondents get turfed off the premises?

The room is pretty small and I imagine "death stares" could become quite intimidating.

Tribunal tweets links from this morning:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1889602296952000545.html

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1889630532213817370.html

Or archive links if needed:
Feb 12 am part one
https://archive.ph/XPm0a

Feb 12 am part two
https://archive.ph/irMny

@Motorina Briefly, JR can't ditch him now to save Fife as they will all look batshit, incomptetent and KoolAid drinkers. Not the responsible employer image they want.

There might be a settlement offer part way through, but not sure if that will happen myself

JR will do her best to support the rest of the Respondent witnesses through their evidence without compromising Dr.U. Avoiding as best she can conflicts of evidence. Hence the constant interruptions when NC gets worryingly close.

NC will do the turning of stones and revelation of lies. JR will keep schtum on them as much as possible. JR's summary at the end will try to avoid the potential conflicts or attempt to smooth them over.

Finally, the Tribunal decision will remark on whose evidence they found sound or unsound and why in the giving of the decision. Just my view.

IANAL but I think they can choose whether to stay or go.

Maybe they wanted to make sure she bowed down before Dr U in suitably grovelling manner? Surely that's the only possible reason i.e. to double up the bullying on SP given the patient safety concerns seem to be a bit fat nothing.

Yes after giving evidence they can stay or go. SP is attending every day I think

I wonder how the wall of sad is doing today?

Good for her. It must be nice for the rest of the world to be exposed to DU's nasty, vindictive, bullying behaviour and see what she had to put up with.

The process is the punishment. As we constantly see.

Yes, witnesses are allowed to stay and watch the rest of the proceedings if they wish.

So in Upton World….

female colleague has the temerity to express out loud that single sex changing room should be single sex = egad! I’ve been hate incidented! I must run to a senior colleague in dismay and distress and report this Very Serious Matter right now!

versus

patient safety incident/ potential patient safety incident = meh, just some extraneous background information that can wait a few weeks

Argh I've got to go shopping now. Argh. Excited to catch up later though.

Phew just caught up for the pm session, thanks @ickky for bringing TT over here.

I've also enjoyed your personal interpretations : )

But hopefully the Wall of Sad are kicked into the observers room (or arrive too late to get in).

Why on earth are the MW rules in the Tribunal bundle not the GMC ones? Baffling!

I'm a little bit confused. Are Upton personally, and NHS Fife as an organisation, both facing the same claims from Sandie Peggie? I can't help but feel that, whilst Upton is certainly appearing to be a loathsome fantasist and troublemaker, NHS Fife had the means and opportunity to contain him and slap him back into his place.
NHS Fife allowed him to bully all the women exposed to his fantasy-self. NHS Fife colluded in his abuse of his status as a doctor AND his abuse of the systems that NHS itself has in place, to deliberately target and abuse a fucking massive number of staff. Sandie's the only one who has stood up and refused to cow before the trans god, but there will be many others in the Vic who feared running into him in changing rooms, loos and wards.

NHS Fife ALLOWED the man to rampage round their hospital and cause havoc.

Upton makes my skin crawl, but NHS Fife literally sat back and allowed him to create mayhem amongst their female staff. Jesus. It's so far beyond pure sexism that I cannot think of a word strong enough. WTF has happened to the world???

I didn't complain to the GMC but I wrote to ask them how I would be able to access care from a female doctor without being accused of transphobia - because the current issues with terminology leave me in a difficult position of not being able to get my needs met for safety, dignity and privacy.

Ultimately that is what we want the GMC to sort out.

The GMC will have had enough complaints about DU as a member/fitness to practice. So we should be emailing asking about care relating to ALL THEIR OTHER members.

The fact that EVERYONE treated the 'transphobia' allegation more seriously than patient safety is not a good look for either respondent.

Your right and he is wrong. In any situation, emergency or not the safety of one's self and staff has priority - there is no point in creating another casualty to be dealt with.

[People are beginning to come back into the tribunal room; proceedings will begin when the Judge and panel members come in]

I agree, they are at least as responsible for taking his allegations against Sandie wrt to her wanting single sex spaces more seriously than patient safety allegations.

That disinterest is what I call rubbish...if that's o.k with you?