NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #11

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks although at the start of the second week getting everything done in this time period was looking less certain. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10

I was hearing Rohan/Rohanna rather than Rhianna or Rihanna.

Surely NC would be familiar with the various spellings of Rhianna and pronounce it correctly?

But they'd have been cocking up the whole way through. What's different now?

It doesn't have to be these people themselves cocking up for it to be deliberate. It could be someone exploiting the tech inabilities of older people. E.g. by removing the administrator mute.

Is anyone still in the hearing?

Hopefully there will be an agreement for journalists and tribunal tweets to still be allowed to join even if the rest of us are out. I think they will probably break for lunch now.

I will be v v v disappointed if these tech issues can't be resolved. What a farce.

I am have been WFTCHTJ for 5 mins now.

For me it is a necessary horror show to witness.

A Judge having to sit there and rule on the plainly obvious. let's hope he does his job, not all do believe me

Maybe why BU said he'd only recorded as rudeness, not patient safety incident

Is Tribunal Tweets still in? (I'm not on X)

Disaster not having Tribunal Tweets, surely they can let them in if nobody else while it's sorted.

No!

I suspect the court video conferencing system wouldn't be that difficult to hack into with admin privileges. Just sayin'

His demeanour and responses to NC have shown very well that he's actually not intimidated by being challenged by a woman AT ALL!

But SP on Christmas Eve saying he wasn't entitled to be in a female changing room caused him to be crying, shaking, needing to be helped to his car, email to the BMA . . . hmmmm.

Oh and I'm particularly enjoying him mansplaining points of law to Naomi Cunningham KC>

Hearing continuing without remote observers.

Michael Foran on twitter is covering.
TT don't seem to be yet - maybe not there in person?

Just been let in the lobby and there are 650 plus being added

She was firing on all cylinders despite the filibustering though. Go Naomi!

Loads of sunlight streaming through.

Hopefully TT will plug the gap.

These are I suspect tech issues - am waiting for the conference host to join like everyone else.

Judge has already said NC can't force yes/no answers, so DU will just treat each example as an opportunity for a lengthy, tendentious lecture. He's playing out the clock now, deliberately timewasting (and I suspect his supporters are using the live link to assist).

Michael is there in person and live tweeting in place of TribTweets

x.com/michaelpforan/status/1889279458500088246?t=nO82DY2n-Iw-azOQ2a-3CQ&s=19

I think we're all realising TT are relying on the tech like the rest of us. I was hoping maybe they were there in person to report the content.

This is so frustrating.

I'm pretty sure I saw Upton's wife 'having a few words' during a short break in a sessions late yesterday morning/ early afternoon. The microphones had been turned off, but the camera was still on them. I didn't realise it was his wife at first. She was standing around swigging in an agitated sort of way from a water bottle and NC was sitting in her place. Upton's wife appeared to approach and have a few apparently angry words with NC, who looked bemused by it and stayed where she was. I note this morning NC asked that Upton's supporters be moved from behind her, where they could read her screen. What with Jane Russell justifying her presence by objecting regularly, I can imagine the atmosphere isn't very pleasant in there.

I wonder what Russell and her team feel about Upton? He can't be an easy client to deal with. I wonder whether that's why JR interrupts so often — so that at the end of it she can say 'Look, I did everything I could.'

This is how the tribunal operate! The first time I attended one as a witness I was surprised that they wanted my title and I was referred to as Mrs Everyone for the duration. I’d not long gotten married so was still getting used to it, and found it very odd!

And of them being very very very very IRRITATING!!!! I mean, no wonder Sandie avoided talking to him, I bet many other people are wishing they’d been brave enough to avoid him too!

This is a huge part of the problem. To willingly appropriate a "lived experience" that you can have no concept of, identify womanhood in terms of a stereotype, and not care about how women feel about it and expect them to go along with being told what to think against their lifetime-honed better judgement, you'd probably have to be not all that nice or caring of a person to start with (though I accept there may be some cases where ND or MH play a part).

Gender ideology now essentially means you can't have a problem with someone who identifies as trans, however much of a pain in the arse they are. Handy that.

i'm in as an observer with WFTCHTJ on audio at the moment
anyone else?

I expect they will break for lunch in a moment