NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #11

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks although at the start of the second week getting everything done in this time period was looking less certain. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10

In many cases the observer option wouldn’t work for people, I remember from last week

if we all spent time recording everything we thought rude we'd have no time to do anything

Well quite possibly if you think reality and biology are offensive. Not for most people though. No one has been rude to me for ages, stroppy teen DD aside.

There's a message at the bottom of my screen "turn on camera"

I know to ignore it but some people don't know that

It's confusing

Been kicked off numerous times now. I got "your connection had been terminated by another participant "🤷‍♀️. Surely they can mute/camera off for everyone like they did earlier this morning

Does anyone have access to the solicitors details - perhaps let them know so it can be discussed over the lunch break.

This is frustrating.

Surely you just join as Observer then there's no chance of your camera or mic becoming active?

No, when the interruptions started there were around 200 in the waiting room.

I think it's all due to tech issues.

Anyone else quite relieved that we might be kicked out for the day? I'm not sure how much more of this mansplainy whingeing I can take!

I agree, must be a tech issue as looks like people have no idea. Perhaps yesterdays clerk was adjusting settings as they joined

No tribunal tweets now, either.

J: more audio issues adjourning for 5 to sort out - people on camera and unmuted.*

Michael Foran saying:

"Tribunal paused while tech issues are sorted out. Tribunal seems to have no way to mute people as they join the call. Risk they might make an order to shut down remote observation entirely now. Too many disruptions. Hopefully they find a solution."

no you get a message on screen saying turn on camera

so people do

When they were talking about the AWOL Child, NC referred to an interview with the other nurse (Rhianne?), who said that the conversation was between Beth and SP. DId anybody catch the date of that interview?

Many threads ago, there was a suggestion that this incident (which was in December) should have been promptly entered onto the complaints system. Beth just seems to take phone notes.

Maybe the clerk's an infiltrator and this is weaponised incompetence ie deliberate mismanagement. Odd it came just as NC started slipping off her gloves...

I run virtual meetings with larger groups of older people.
I’ve never had this performance!

Maybe they are short handed and the person who should be managing it is absent?

There was that internal call we joined earlier, too.

Joining as observer doesn't work for everyone. But you can turn off the camera at the level of the computer, in settings, then join video + audio

A wave of Rapid Onset Age-Related Tech Incapacity?

NC is getting to the heart of it now.

One side has demanded compelled speech of the other side, only one.

DU's 'basic respect' = everyone does what I say all the time and any deviance at all from that, independent expression or thought is disrespect.

This is what NC needs to show. And NHS fife colluded in this interpretation. It's a free pass to 'burn the witch'. Clear discrimination. Sex realist views are already established as WORIADS in law.

The timing of this disruption is not a coincidence, it's been fine up until now. This is deliberate because trans activism relies on everyone going 'oh well, basic respect doesn't sound too bad' without realising that 'basic respect' = total capitulation to their world view alone. And that what they call basic respect is very similar to what they call a woman in that it has no resemblance to what normal people would interpret as those words meaning. At all.

To TRAs 'basic respect' = do as I say or else. No respect for anyone else's beliefs or need. All very much one way.

It seems like people have been doing that, and then the system has randomly unmuted people.

As an aside, I just checked me joining instructions email and noticed the Team Leader has addressed me as 'Dear Madam'. I can't believe they have presumed my gender from my name.

This can't be loads of people suddenly doing the wrong thing surely

But a disruption or tech error

I agree. I went in as an observer that last time but my mic was unmuted, I was half expecting it so didn't exclaim loudly or anything and had covered up the camera in case.

Tribunal proceeding without online observation while tech issues are being sorted. Unsure how long it will take to fix that. But continuing now in person. 0 Dr Michael Foran on X

This is why they should just livestream it on Youtube like Australian Federal Court does. No chance of anyone accidentally having a camera or mike on.

This has to be deliberate.

Micheal foran tells us that tribunal is proceeding without observers while they sort tech issues:

https://x.com/michaelpforan/status/1889279218283868196?t=d7VtREFofYgzUbvY3NYY-Q&s=19