NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #11

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks although at the start of the second week getting everything done in this time period was looking less certain. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10

I don't believe for a minute all those people are doing something different today, it must be something at their end surely. What a debacle. Quickly covered up camera even though I knew it wasn't selected.

Inclined to agree @HootyMcBoobs

Presumably the hearing continues without us hearing it.

That's not the issue

This is what NC should do as a quick fire round:

You said there needs to be an emphasis on communicating clearly in A&E. Does this extend to patients? yes or no

You admit people see you as male. In terms of the following would you be willing to withdraw and get a female doctor and therefore admit you are male (as in the general publics accepted understanding of what is taught at school) yes or no for the following presenting at A&E:

A young traumatised girl asking for a female doctor: yes or no

A distressed elderly man who is asking why you are saying you are a woman: yes or no

A man who wants his 11 year old scared mute daughter to be seen by a female doctor: yes or no (this one is to get the judge thinking)

A Muslim woman who wants same sex care: yes or no

So would you be able to extend the same courtesy to your female colleagues: yes or no

Do we this the court is still going on? Or will they have stopped?

Sabotage

So I take it everyone is booted in that case?

The disrupters are all ordinary folk though. It would have to be somewhere in the settings for it to be disruption.

I've tried joining using the observer box and it won't let me. But you can turn your camera and sound off in the waiting room so not a problem. But surely there must be a way to mute everyone on entry.

In the background of the older bloke in glasses there seemed to be a running commentary of this tribunal - on the telly perhaps?

I've been chucked a couple of times and am now WFTCHTJ

Does anyone know how many people were in, roughly? I’m horrified if private details are being screened to all!!!

I’m wftchtj

Was Maya there in person earlier? Do we know that someone reliable is?

I'm WFTCHTJ for the second time. Thank god my webcam is one that pops up out of the top of computer and so it’s been firmly stowed out of the way for all this with no possibility of accidental embarrassment.

Having said that, I wouldn’t be surprised if access is now finished for the day. Maybe permanently.

I tried joining as an observer and it wouldn't let me.

But it's not rocket science to just mute yourself and switch off the camera.

Or for everyone to be muted automatically.

I have noticed it's all older people, potentially less tech savvy and have not joined as an observer but rather just clicked through while the option was for audio and video?

I've been logged in for half an hour but still WFTCHTJ. Am I doing something wrong?

Presumably they can only show your phone number if you've dialled in with your phone.

This can't be loads of people suddenly doing the wrong thing surely

But a disruption or tech error

I shoved a tissue over my camera quickly just in case - back in the lobby waiting to be let in ....

TRAs may be saying he’s a hero, but I think he’s done trans people a massive disservice.

Before hearing him, I could have imagined tolerating a trans colleague - maybe they’d be OK other than their trans status, maybe it wouldn’t be a massive issue?

Now I am very sure that there is a high risk of an incredible level of male entitlement, gaslighting, mansplaining and a risk of being reported for not deferring to their commands.

And of them being very very very very IRRITATING!!!! I mean, no wonder Sandie avoided talking to him, I bet many other people are wishing they’d been brave enough to avoid him too!

Well that was an utter omnishambles. I think cock up by clerk rather than conspiracy. Different clerk today? The tech has been shonky all morning.
I'm back to WFTCHTJ.

Yep, back WFTCHTJ. 😡

They had adjourned due to technical issues when I got kicked out the first time... What a fucking waste of time.

Wrt observer sabotage: all the disrupting joiners are puzzled-looking older people, not self-righteous blue haired kids. I think cock-up is more likely than conspiracy.