For Women Scotland in Supreme court - thread 2

[ArabellaScott]

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5182666-for-women-scotland-heading-for-supreme-court

The situation (as represented in the court just now) appears to be that you can "create a space for women only based on the belief that a man is never a woman, no matter how he feels about it" (thank you Maya), but you can't create a space for women only based on the truth of that belief.

But Labour have only just been elected.......Biden enacted those changes towards the end of his term.

I think Labour will go ahead and do as they've promised...in spite of legal advice not to do so without proper consideration.

Haha, possibly a bad analogy there then!

If the group has less than 25 members, it can do whatever it wants. Once it gets above that level, it must not discriminate against people on the basis of a protected characteristic.

Your darts ability is not a protected characteristic, so the pub darts team can exclude you on that basis. Indeed, if they have fewer than 25 people they can exclude you on any grounds they want. However, if they have 25 or more people in the team, they could exclude you for being shit at darts but not for being a woman.

Yes, a lesbian group could say "we are full" to any trans woman who applies, but if they have more than 25 members and the individual concerned discovers that they have admitted women after rejecting them and without anyone leaving, they have a case for discrimination.

Apologies crossed post @murasaki !

And any trans woman with a GRC who uses 'her' penis to rape, presumably should also have their GRC rescinded?

Wish the Judges had asked this!

I'm in Germany. You don't want what we have.

Under which Freddie sodding McConnel could have: got a GRC to be a man, decided to get pregnant so change sex markers back to F to have all legal protections and coverage etc, have the baby, then change sex markers back to M.

Here it is all up in the air. But nobody IRL really talks about it except as a joke (eg i was in a massive queue at a football match for the ladies, and a woman in front of me said "for sure we can say we're men now and use theirs")

He is intimating that Labour have refused to clarify the definition of Sex

So basically lesbians are only allowed to meet in small numbers. That sounds like oppression to me.

@Shortshriftandlethal Biden' first day in office

www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jan/22/transgender-athletes-joe-biden-executive-order

I think they said that the definition doesn't need changing in the Equality Act. Kemi Badenoch was arguing it does.

That appears to be what is being argued. I do not agree with that argument. I am very firmly in the camp that believes that there should be single sex spaces for biological women and that it should be legal to exclude trans women from such spaces.

I am not following this very well .

isn't the law in the uk that it's only rape if it's a penis? but if you have a GRC (does not require surgery, which i am actually in agreement with) you now have a lady penis to rape with.

So in that case i wouldn't imagine anyone trying to rescind that GRC (that nobody is allowed to ask to see anyway) would have a leg to stand on. Unfortunately.

Maybe, but the next election in Britain is five years away.

Exactly! Labour won't do it.

You are not alone

@Shortshriftandlethal yes, and we have 5 years to bring court cases, protest and make sure that Labour's intentions come under public scrutiny. No more acting under the radar. Plus Kemi will use it as a stick to beat Labour with constantly.

[fist bump]

Sallyforf They are delving into the various acts to try and establish intention. Did these acts mean sex or did they mean gender - very broadly. Was there anything implied and how could you tell.

Neither am I - I am sinking in a list of numbers, sections and paragraphs ☹️

God this fella is dull, I'm nodding off here.

Yes, I am hoping they will quietly drop the manifesto commitment after this court case and after the disaster gender bollocks has been for the Democrats ( it does seem this was a factor for swing voters in particular).

I feel like a bear of very little brain trying to follow this.

(Section 9 bear obvs)

I gave up and went and made a drink and put the washing out!