Old Vic gender neutral toilets naffness

[SarkyMummy]

At the Old Vic last night. Hadn’t been for a while and think they’ve changed the loos to gender neutral toilets - possibly with a disabled toilet separately. (Separate note: accessibility for my elderly mother was poor).

The signs on the door have no images or names on them - just what you can expect to find behind the door. On left, toilets and baby changing. On the right, toilets and urinals. So let’s infer who is intended to do the baby changing..

So confusing do people find the signs that they have a member of staff there to signpost you to the correct loo for you - it appears by eye balling you and making a call on your behalf.

What a mess!

Yes, having toilets that need an interpreter seems crazy. It's one of those things that sounds OK in a meeting but leaves out that you're not just introducing something new, you're eliminating the old system - people know what to look for when they want to pee, and you've taken that away.

I've certainly been at a gathering when women have spoken up about the special awfulness of these toilets. That's quite an achievement.

I was there yesterday and wondered this too, along with an eye roll about how confusing it could be. I did notice the "womens" toilets still had a massive queue while the men were nipping in and out of the urinals.

@PermanentTemporary Indeed. And other questions. Given that these are gender neutral toilets, I would presumably be welcome to use either, but why is it assumed that the usher can anticipate people’s gender identity based on what they appear like/wear etc? I may look like a haggard middle aged, middle class woman but that may not be how I identify (spoiler: it is).

And for trans people who may not clearly pass - how are they responded to by the usher? Given that these toilets were designed with trans inclusion in mind the thinking seems very, very confused…

@Stretchedresources maybe they can get rid of the usher and let the queue do the talking! 😀

Hope you enjoyed the show.

I’d heard that they were gender neutral (mixed sex) but having an usher to guide people was new to me. Im glad it’s not working great - hopefully they will switch back.

The toilets at the old Vic have always been the most frustrating ones in London. When they still had sex-divided toilets the women's queue lasted the whole interval and men would be nipping in and out. Obviously they never responded to this by changing them but now they have changed then for gender id reasons they should get rid of the urinals and then they wouldn't need to over explain everything would they.

A sorting hat for the loo? Amazing.

@ArabellaScott Exactly. But a human one with bias and assumptions.

Wtf do they do when a gender non conforming person approaches? One could do some interesting research.

We boycot that theatre because of the toilet situation. I can’t imagine what would have to be on to make us go there.

We rarely go to any theatre these days for two reasons to do with comfort. Ladies Loos; never enough capacity.
Seating, DH is just over 6ft, not a giant but the sitting space is so cramped. We realise that it is almost impossible to change the way the seats are stepped but someone needs to replace these old buildings.

Or if the person directing makes an incorrect assumption about a persons ‘gender’ - the fact they need someone there directing people is an absolute shit show of an idea.

A group of gender non conforming people should all approach to test the system. Are they scrying for genitalia to suggest appropriate facilities, or some inscrutable inner essence?

Me too. Along with several other theatres.

We won't go to the Old Vic because of the loo situation. The whole thing is 2 fingers up to women - no thanks!

I've missed a few good shows including "Sylvia" - ironic that a show about female emancipation was att a theatre that disrespects women.

Same here too.

In fact, I was weighing up the two Oedipus productions that are going to be on and went for the one at Wyndham's Theatre because the other was going to be at The Old Vic.

Was that the one in which Oedipus sleeps with theys birthing person by accident, perhaps due to a failure in people accurately acknowledging biological and material reality?

(Edited to avoid misgendering the mofo)
(I can't parse the punctuation of 'theys' though, sorry)

I hope the OP has complained and also that everyone who boycotts the Old Vic has also complained and told them why they won’t go there.

1. I can't use a urinal
2. Therefore I'm being discriminated against
3. It's illegal to discriminate against me
4. Therefore something should be done

(I know what, but I'm just trying to spell things out carefully!)

the Kevin spacey patronage debacle had me on the fence (they 💯 knew about all his goings on with numerous young men in the various productions) but the “new” toilets tipped me over the edge.

If this is what inclusive / be kind bollocks translates to you can keep it… because it’s not kind to me and doesn’t feel inclusive to me either.

I haven’t been in over 2 years now and am no worse off for it…

I assume by "I havent been in 2 years", you mean the theatre, not...

Went to the Old Vic this weekend and toilets are now: accessible, cubicles or urinals. Soooo men have a single sex space (urinals) and women don’t as there were men entering the cubicled room. I had no choice but to use the accessible toilet and be very quick.

Is this lawful? Men have single sex provision but women do not.

Is this lawful? Men have single sex provision but women do not.

Can you start by writing to ask them why they are discriminating against women in this way?

Firms are clearly not going to do anything unless they are dragged kicking and screaming to do so.