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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

For Women Scotland heading for Supreme Court

1000 replies

Imnobody4 · 07/10/2024 23:19

You can read the reasons etc in For Women Scotlands crowdfunder. They are launching this review
UK Supreme Court: The Definition of Sex in the Equality Act

The Inner House of the Court of Session Judgment

We believe the Equality Act was drafted on the basis of the ordinary, common law understanding of the biological differences between the two sexes. The protected characteristic of “sex” in the Equality Act is defined as a reference to a man or a woman, where man means “a male of any age” and woman means “a female of any age”. We think it is quite clear that these are distinct and separate groups and that “woman” is not a mixed-sex category.

However, in our recent judicial review, For Women Scotland v The Scottish Ministers [2023] CSIH 37, the Inner House took the opposite view and decided there is a relationship between the Gender Recognition Act 2004 (GRA) and Equality Act 2010 and held that the meaning of sex in the Equality Act incorporated the GRA framework.

The court decision stated that a person with a Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC) in their acquired gender has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment. Separately, they also possess the protected characteristic of sex according to the terms of their GRC and have a presumptive right to access the single-sex services of their acquired gender.

The Supreme Court will consider a request brought by For Women Scotland (FWS) who argue there are “strong grounds” for its challenge, which will almost certainly overturn contentious Scottish government legislation if successful.Campaigners for women’s “sex-based” rights reacted with delight to the news, including Magi Gibson, the poet, who posted on X/Twitter, that it was “game on” on in the “fight for the protection of women’s rights within the UK legal system”.Dennis Noel Kavanagh, a lawyer and the director of Gay Men’s Network, said: “Getting permission to go to the Supreme Court is really hard and very rare but FWS have it. The question ‘what is a woman’ in law will now be heard by our highest court. Massive news.”

www.thetimes.com/article/088ae0ce-fba9-4b97-8331-01a32195bef5?shareToken=3ada340957f5d2af2e20b01a7c15da3b

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ILikeDungs · 26/11/2024 16:03

mine too

TWETMIRF · 26/11/2024 16:03

Froze here too. Not my Internet as still getting just over 800Mb

ickky · 26/11/2024 16:03

I think the live feed has gone as it it 4pm.

Appalonia · 26/11/2024 16:03

ArabellaScott · 26/11/2024 16:01

It's reinforcing that a 'transwoman' doesn't need to be classed legally as female to be covered by anti discrimination legislation.

Oh I see, thank you!

chilling19 · 26/11/2024 16:03

Have we been turned off?

MarieDeGournay · 26/11/2024 16:03

Boiledbeetle · 26/11/2024 16:02

It does!

Thanks Boiled, I knew that if I put the idea out there, some clever clogs would make an image of it for meSmile
It will sit well alongside Essence of Woman and Eau de Crone, won't it?

CriticalCondition · 26/11/2024 16:03

Frozen here too.

GCITC · 26/11/2024 16:03

I had to reload and it's working now.

ickky · 26/11/2024 16:04

It's working now, reload the page.

TeamKenwood · 26/11/2024 16:04

I refreshed my browser lots of times and it’s working again.

ArabellaScott · 26/11/2024 16:04

'Men who have achieved career success as men and then transition to women, it doesn't address what the legislation was intended for' (slight paraphrase)

YASSSSS!!!

chilling19 · 26/11/2024 16:04

TeamKenwood · 26/11/2024 16:04

I refreshed my browser lots of times and it’s working again.

👍

Signalbox · 26/11/2024 16:05

I think everyone did a silent cheer when the judge said that!

BettyFilous · 26/11/2024 16:05

I took a break during the discussion about living as a woman entails and resumed during the discussion just now about perception discrimination and transwomen bringing a claim. The tenor of the judges’ questions seem to have shifted, like they are starting to get the problem. Is that a fair reading?

ArabellaScott · 26/11/2024 16:06

BettyFilous · 26/11/2024 16:05

I took a break during the discussion about living as a woman entails and resumed during the discussion just now about perception discrimination and transwomen bringing a claim. The tenor of the judges’ questions seem to have shifted, like they are starting to get the problem. Is that a fair reading?

I'd very much hope so. But I am massively biased.

highame · 26/11/2024 16:07

I am still getting over the Judge who thought hair and makeup were included in physiological characteristics. I don't think it will ever leave me

Ereshkigalangcleg · 26/11/2024 16:08

I don't really get the point of Ben's arguments.

To head off any contention that a passing "trans woman" or "man" might be discriminated against based on a genuine perception of them as the opposite sex.

lonelywater · 26/11/2024 16:09

highame · 26/11/2024 16:07

I am still getting over the Judge who thought hair and makeup were included in physiological characteristics. I don't think it will ever leave me

That was a real jaw dropper. I thought these people were supposed to be the best of the best and they dont know what physiological means? WTAF?

MadameBethune · 26/11/2024 16:09

Im very late to the day but is the live stream still on? I can't find it on the UKSC Youtube page

Signalbox · 26/11/2024 16:10

MadameBethune · 26/11/2024 16:09

Im very late to the day but is the live stream still on? I can't find it on the UKSC Youtube page

https://www.supremecourt.uk/live/court-01.html

Watch live - the Supreme Court

Watch live Supreme Court sittings

https://www.supremecourt.uk/live/court-01.html

Ereshkigalangcleg · 26/11/2024 16:10

It will probably be uploaded to YouTube later so people can catch up.

Boiledbeetle · 26/11/2024 16:12

Ben finished

ArabellaScott · 26/11/2024 16:12

Judges grateful to Sex Matters, found their submissions very helpful.

highame · 26/11/2024 16:12

Sex matters submission very helpful

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