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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

For Women Scotland heading for Supreme Court

1000 replies

Imnobody4 · 07/10/2024 23:19

You can read the reasons etc in For Women Scotlands crowdfunder. They are launching this review
UK Supreme Court: The Definition of Sex in the Equality Act

The Inner House of the Court of Session Judgment

We believe the Equality Act was drafted on the basis of the ordinary, common law understanding of the biological differences between the two sexes. The protected characteristic of “sex” in the Equality Act is defined as a reference to a man or a woman, where man means “a male of any age” and woman means “a female of any age”. We think it is quite clear that these are distinct and separate groups and that “woman” is not a mixed-sex category.

However, in our recent judicial review, For Women Scotland v The Scottish Ministers [2023] CSIH 37, the Inner House took the opposite view and decided there is a relationship between the Gender Recognition Act 2004 (GRA) and Equality Act 2010 and held that the meaning of sex in the Equality Act incorporated the GRA framework.

The court decision stated that a person with a Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC) in their acquired gender has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment. Separately, they also possess the protected characteristic of sex according to the terms of their GRC and have a presumptive right to access the single-sex services of their acquired gender.

The Supreme Court will consider a request brought by For Women Scotland (FWS) who argue there are “strong grounds” for its challenge, which will almost certainly overturn contentious Scottish government legislation if successful.Campaigners for women’s “sex-based” rights reacted with delight to the news, including Magi Gibson, the poet, who posted on X/Twitter, that it was “game on” on in the “fight for the protection of women’s rights within the UK legal system”.Dennis Noel Kavanagh, a lawyer and the director of Gay Men’s Network, said: “Getting permission to go to the Supreme Court is really hard and very rare but FWS have it. The question ‘what is a woman’ in law will now be heard by our highest court. Massive news.”

www.thetimes.com/article/088ae0ce-fba9-4b97-8331-01a32195bef5?shareToken=3ada340957f5d2af2e20b01a7c15da3b

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ArabellaScott · 26/11/2024 12:49

crumpet · 26/11/2024 12:48

Can’t view the court so don’t know how old the judge is, but surely he will have heard of David Bowie, Boy George, the New Romantics and so many more! None of whom considered themselves to have changed sex by virtue of a bit of lippy!

It was a wumman.

crumpet · 26/11/2024 12:49

Sigh.

Signalbox · 26/11/2024 12:51

Now we come to the problem of the pregnant man...

Shortshriftandlethal · 26/11/2024 12:51

TeamKenwood · 26/11/2024 12:41

The questions from the Justices at the moment don’t suggest they can get their heads round it all, never mind give a learned judgment!

You'd have thought that well honed critical thinking would be a key requirement for the judiciary.

ScrollingLeaves · 26/11/2024 12:58

ArabellaScott · 26/11/2024 12:35

One of them just asked if sex and gender weren't interchangeable.

It sounds as though the judges haven’t got the first clue.

All those questions such as appearance are irrelevant. All they need to know is that no one can change sex. No hormones or surgery ( infrequent anyway) or make-up changes someone’s sex, and that the EA means biological Sex.

Bannedontherun · 26/11/2024 12:58

This is hilarious they all keep stumbling over trans language, and are pretending they do not understand.

The best bit thus far to me is pointing to EHRC absurdities that they freely admit.

Villagetoraiseachild · 26/11/2024 13:00

They must be breaking for lunch soon?

Appalonia · 26/11/2024 13:01

Thing is, even I'm struggling to understand this and I've been following this for 7 years, so it must be really difficult to get it if you're relatively new to it. The language itself is purposefully obfiscating.

highame · 26/11/2024 13:02

I wonder how, those new to this, are finding the beautiful mess that is gender

SallyForf · 26/11/2024 13:02

Resuming at 2pm.

ArabellaScott · 26/11/2024 13:02

They should call Judith Butler in to explain it all.

highame · 26/11/2024 13:03

Missed what time they return.

BettyBooper · 26/11/2024 13:03

My head hurts...

HarpQuartet · 26/11/2024 13:03

@Appalonia I was just going to say that I got lost in that last section about pregnant men

HarpQuartet · 26/11/2024 13:03

2pm

Villagetoraiseachild · 26/11/2024 13:03

Those poor judges, googling like fury during the break.

Harassedevictee · 26/11/2024 13:03

The good thing about the arguments is it’s about protecting the rights of all women including transmen with a GRC. This is why it makes sense.

BettyBooper · 26/11/2024 13:04

HarpQuartet · 26/11/2024 13:03

@Appalonia I was just going to say that I got lost in that last section about pregnant men

I did appreciate the chuckles in court when the subject of 'natal men' not being able to be pregnant arose...

BettyFilous · 26/11/2024 13:06

I’ve been so gripped by FWS’ KC I haven’t been able to follow the posts on here. I am astonished by his stamina and ability to concentrate for so long. My contribution to FWS’ case feels like money well spent. I was heartened by the way he covered the historical precedents to set the scene for this case.

YellowRoom · 26/11/2024 13:06

Thanks for the updates - unfortunately can only dip in

Appalonia · 26/11/2024 13:07

Have to say, that KC is VERY on top of his brief! ( thank God )

Appalonia · 26/11/2024 13:08

Looking forward to seeing the fabulous Ben Cooper later!😁

Villagetoraiseachild · 26/11/2024 13:08

BettyFilous · 26/11/2024 13:06

I’ve been so gripped by FWS’ KC I haven’t been able to follow the posts on here. I am astonished by his stamina and ability to concentrate for so long. My contribution to FWS’ case feels like money well spent. I was heartened by the way he covered the historical precedents to set the scene for this case.

He is the GC woman's Mark Darcy equivalent!
Fair play to the man, that was a long presentation.

chilling19 · 26/11/2024 13:09

Wouldn't it be great if the court decided this is complicated bullshit so sex is sex. Case closed.

WarriorN · 26/11/2024 13:10

Unfortunately they have to out Butler the Judith Butlerophiles.

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