"Women freeze or befriend as a survival tactic."

[Theeyeballsinthesky]

https://x.com/channel4news/status/1776213472662946143?s=46&t=aWQLrPtVicDNf6MQpq5WVg

i found this really interesting and I do agree that women often adopt this approach. I know I have - trying to humour or placate a man when I know I can’t get away and certainly can’t fight

Like when men chat about their petticoats in the ladies'.

Quite. Th the 'man on the train' issue. Creep man on the train creeps on you:

You ignore "rude fucking bitch"
You engage a small amount "why are you so unfriendly, bitch"
You engage nicely "you're so lovely, I love you"
You disengage because creepy "cock tease bitch"
You move, he follows
You shout "hysterical bitch"
You freeze "you love it"
Eventually you fight because there's nothing left and then he's stronger than you. You're a loser.

If you choose any single one of the above, you will be asked why you didn't choose any other of the above. And you don't have the fight left to explain misogyny to idiots.

Well that’s exactly it Rex. Every time our regular TRA turn up to tell us that women don’t mind TW in their changing rooms/toilets/groups because no one has ever confronted them and complained it’s exactly this. Exactly what’s in this interview - we’re not male, we have different tactics to manage frightening situations with men becatse we know they’re bigger & stronger than we are

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You'd be a fool to complain. You keep safe and get out.

👏💐🏆

Excellent summation of the options and outcomes.

Depressingly realistic too 😟

I've found it helpful to see how they've been extended (I recognise some of these extra responses, depending on context).

The 5 Fs: fight, flight, freeze, flop or friend.

https://rapecrisis.org.uk/get-help/tools-for-victims-and-survivors/understanding-your-response/fight-or-flight/

The 7 Fs: fight, fright, flight, freeze, flop/faint, flag, fawn.

https://positivepsychology.com/trauma-response/

Yet this is being contested by a sports body, isn't it? I read it's been deemed misogynistic or something to imply that women don't react the same as men.

From some training manual, that's been withdrawn to due noncompliance with gender bollox, I think.

That's interesting do you have more info on this please? and which sport?

I'm fairly sure men would develop the same responses if they were regularly sexually harassed by 7 foot tall aggressive men.

But they aren't.

Brilliant post @MrsTerryPratchett

It was rugby, now withdrawn. I didn't read it myself but, from what I have seen reported, there was a load of really sexist stuff, alongside this reasonable observation about women's different reactions to threat.

The recent rugby matter:

www.msn.com/en-sg/sport/other/world-of-rugby-embroiled-in-sexism-row-after-sports-governing-body-was-forced-to-delete-guidance-claiming-men-are-competitive-while-women-are-hard-wired-to-be-empathetic/ar-BB1l60ZP

It's not 'hard wired', it's learned behaviour. Women learn the most effective ways to escape a threatening situation. From very young.

This has reminded me how a strange man ‘helped’ me get my very drunk boyfriend home one night (not far). Forced himself in the house despite me saying Thankyou so much well be fine now, and bf crawled upstairs. I was left in the kitchen with this scary guy who wouldn’t leave, edging closer, wanting thanks for his good deed and in panic I offered him a cup of tea!! To play for time I suppose. Sure that would have gone against me in court.
Thankfully one of my (male) housemates had heard the commotion, came down and unceremoniously saw him off. I shudder to think…

Gosh yes this sounds so true. When I was 18 working in Spain a man followed me into a lift and masturbated. I was stuck there and I chatted to him and even said bye. I used to think I was silly in my reaction. This shows me it was more of a survival response. It was 35 years ago but you never forget the shock.

Cleebop, it makes absolute sense, to try to keep them calm, friendly, not stir up aggression against you till you get the chance to escape.

Women can spot danger much quicker than men too.

I was watching a thriller movie with dh the other day and, on screen, there was a tiny flicker of movement through a window behind where the main characters were hiding [indicating the baddie had caught up with them] and dh never saw it. I had to rewind it and point it out.

I think that women literally pan their eyes around more, subconsciously, alert for danger. Like scanning for hazards when you're driving, but all the time. I've often had moments IRL where I've said something like "did you see that weird guy by the pool" and dh has no idea.

Or maybe it's just me vs dh. He's a bit dozy.

I am a man but I was small in my early teens so I can relate, a bit, of course not completely the same experience.
I remember that feeling of being physically no match, and just chatting inanely to a bully when stuck 1 on 1, because if they are chatting they aren't assaulting me. Possibly giving the impression I liked them rather than hated and feared them.

Women can spot danger much quicker than men too.

I'm hypervigilant and acknowledge it.

It's the fruit of several factors in combination, not least of which was growing up with several brothels in nearby houses. From an early age, I had to be able to divert (drunk) men without angering them whenever they knocked at our door (my mum hid and my father intentionally never returned home until very late). It was a high crime area where people were bold enough to break into high-density occupancy homes (i.e., large families in small accommodation) and extract a purse from beneath the sleeping woman's pillow).

My parents' tempers could turn in a flash so I had to learn to sense emotions very quickly as a defence mechanism.

My DH notices nothing and can get irritated when I'm guiding him to cross roads or take subtle evasive action to get us out of danger (I can spot an argument that's about to turn into a brawl).

I'm really sorry that sounds awful, especially with your username.

Imo it's not "hyper" vigilant so much as just - vigilant iyswim. Hyper implies it's excessive but it's often useful/necessary. I see it as a bit of a superpower.

I think (most) women have known this forever. So many rape victims have been denied justice because their actions didn't adhere to (male determined) norms/ expectations.

It seems crazy this is only being said now. But the last few years have shown just how far we still had to come (and have yet to go) on women's rights.

The Ulster Rugby rape trial was only in 2016 yet the victim's knickers were passed round the court for jurors to decide if she had been 'looking for sex'. Another case in Cork did the same as recently as 2018!

www.thejournal.ie/underwear-belfast-rape-trial-4358357-Nov2018/

There was also a case in Northern Ireland where a woman was arrested for procuring pills to bring about a termination. (Abortion where the mother's life was not at risk was illegal in NI until 2020 and it's still almost impossible to access services, especially without being picketed by religious zealots on the way in.) It was the poor 21 yo's housemates who reported her, essentially because they didn't think she was upset enough about it all.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/04/northern-irish-woman-suspended-sentence-self-induced-abortion

Some people find it very difficult to comprehend that not everyone is like them. Not everyone reacts the same as they (think they) would.

There are couple of predictable men on the linked Twitter thread, saying "Women, you're crap, give up."

A few months ago I was alone at an airport, getting my car from the long stay carpark at night. Practically no-one else around. I'm not timid, but when a man then walked past me to his own car, and smiled and said hi, I looked down and didn't engage (and of course my keys had already been between my fingers since I had entered the carpark anyway). We went our separate ways and got our cars, no harm done. My heart was pounding a bit though.

I told this story to DH when I got home, saying that the man had been very thoughtless to do what he did. DH said why shouldn't he be friendly? More people in this world should be friendly. And why on earth were you so rude back?

Adult DD was also there when I told him the story. We both tore a strip off him! I think he was quite shocked, what was blindingly obvious to me and DD had never crossed his mind.

Most men have no idea just how much stronger the average man is compared to the average woman. This has become more clear to since becoming interested in the ‘trans’ issue.

And yes, with regards to rapes and physical assaults many men can’t get past ‘why didn’t you fight back’? They simply don’t realise that in 99% of cases the woman just cannot physically do so.

e.g https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17186303/