Ugh and wow

[porridgeisbae]

Stopped for a pint at a bar- looked in the garden and there was some crusty scabby guy with a couple of others so I decided not to sit through there.

Had to go through there to use the loo after a bit and this bloke, with dreds and a tattoo on his forehead, was in the lady's loos. I wish I'd confronted him.

I assume he thinks having long dreds makes him a woman.

Honestly I'm genuinely disappointed from the posts in this thread

I have interacted with you before under different user names and always found you to be sensible and reasonable

So to find you on here blanket calling people from my culture more likely to be psychopaths with no caveats was unsettling and disappointing

And your "But I have a black friend..." type response is also disappointing

But there we go, I guess I will just have to expect less in future. Such is life.

So to find you on here blanket calling people from my culture more likely to be psychopaths with no caveats was unsettling and disappointing

I said it in no way reflects on people with cultural tattoos. I said, "outwith cultural tattoos" because in no way does the psychopathy research relate to people with cultural tattoos.

For the sake of clarity, psychopathy relates to transgressive behaviour, lack of risk assessment and not caring about being a functional and supportive member of a culture. The exact opposite of people who receive cultural tattoos.

People who get facial tattoos in cultures, including white British cultures, where they are considered problematic are more likely to be psychopathic.

I am sorry.

I was referring to your first post when I said with no caveats

Thank you for your apology

I have interacted with you before under different user names and always found you to be sensible and reasonable

And on this point. Yes, any person in the 'in' group in any culture (white, male, straight) is going to be a disappointment at some point. I can promise you I will think about this conversation, probably at 3am, and think about what I can change. It's a journey.

I still remember a conversation with someone about race on here from years ago, and it informs me now. I was a disappointment then. I would think differently now.

Oh and defensiveness is a wonderful thing. <cough> me <cough>

What a disappointing thread. (Not so much you @MrsTerryPratchett , I think you’ve considered the topic)
but the posters who go on and on about a British man when they mean white and all ‘I bet they will be white so it’s all irrelevant.’ No it’s not irrelevant. So much refusal to even accept another opinion or culture for a second. Posters like this are why women here wanted a black mumsnet board- to have somewhere they aren’t going to be shat all over for daring to speak up when offended. (I’m white for clarity)

So why did op make such a big thing about how he looked then? Why didn't she just say I saw a man in the pub garden and then next thing he was in the women's loo's?

I'm genuinely shocked at some of the posts on this thread.

I'm sorry for any offense I've caused on thus thread. My intention was not to hurt or offend anyone. Can we stop the derailing now? This MAN should not have been in a women's toilet.

It seems that it’s impossible to have a discussion on mumsnet nowadays without someone derailing with whataboutery, what is the likelihood of a man in a British pub being Māori? 1000/1 10000/1? Ffs, in Britain someone with a facial tattoo is unusual and it has negative connotations.

I mean at this point it was all done and dusted and over with a particularly thoughtful post from @MrsTerryPratchett

So at this point the derailing is you and @allyjay rehashing it...

I'd already accepted your apology so I wasn't going to drag this on, but just as a small pointer for the future

If your intention isn't to hurt or offend anyone, don't tell them to be fucking quiet

It's a bit hard to claim you didnt want to hurt or offend anyone when you say things like that

I shouldn't have said 'be fucking quiet' but I'm frustrated by the constant attempts on the feminism board to derail women taking with each other. Your initial post smacked of whataboutery and seemed like an attempt to shut the debate down. I have no desire to carry on debating this with some random on the Internet so have a good day. Byeeeeee

Wow, good derail job, people.

This thread is hilarious! i think ignore the derailers and carry on with the original subject. funny how i haven't seen any men in womanface IRL in 43 years but in the last year seen plenty. all coming out of the shadows.

i prefer not to say men in dresses/kilts, because there's nothing wrong with that, just fashion eg kilts. these were men obviously trying to pretend to be whatever they think a women is - makeup, nails, high voice etc.

the problem with the internet is you don't know who you're talking to and can't adjust accordingly. so people need to give some leeway for that and stop being so offended all the time. i'm "ethic" btw.

the problem with the Internet is you don't know who you are talking to and can't adjust accordingly. so people need to give some leeway for that and stop being casually racist.

Oh the irony of the ones complaining about the derailing actually being the ones to perpetuate the derailing

My posting history is GC and feminist. You can also check with MN that I'm not a TRA troll if you like.

But maybe some of us see equality and equity as equality and equity for everyone and others see it as "we want everyone to be equal but some of us are more equal than others"

That is actually closer to the TRA viewpoint with the "no debate" and smacking down anyone who doesnt stick exactly to the party line regardless of the people who are minimised by this

Maybe we could do better than TRAs?

Like Maori for example? I'm assuming you aren't Maori but it's okay for you to decide this somehow?

No, of course neither I nor the previous poster were talking about that. Those markings are somewhat normal in their culture so don't have the same meaning that a face tattoo does in the West.

People can have all sorts of reasons to get a face tattoo in the West (aside from ethnic subcultures of course) but it is eccentric in the West and can signify/be interpreted as various things.

But neither the poster or I were talking about ethnic groups, as you well know.

More to the point the OP mentioned the man in question having dreads, which may have been locs and therefore a potential to be from a culture more associated with facial tattoos.

No, it was clearly a completely white guy (with an over 90% likelihood) and they were not the sort of dreds a person of another race would have- I know what those dreds are worn like as I live in a very ethnically diverse suburb (but was visiting another suburb for this incident.) They were dyed flaming red, like a druggie or crusty would have. Black British or other people from minority ethnic groups are also less likely to get a face tattoo in the UK in my experience. I also know what a Crusty looks like when it comes to hair- I used to be into subcultures a bit like that in my teens/early 20s.

What a waste of several paragraphs.