Shelagh Fogarty on LBC discussing Scottish rapist case

[Lottapianos]

Good discussion going on at the moment. Shelagh referring to 'biological men' in women's prisons. Two very angry and articulate women callers so far, just horrified at the situation, feeling quite rightly that women prisoners are being hung out to dry

No 'be kind' or hand wringing so far. Makes such a change Hope it continues for the rest of the hour

BRILLIANT woman caller asking 'what on earth is trans anyway?', 'what does 'living as a woman' even mean?', and repeated saying the whole issue is nonsense and that 'the emperor has new clothes'. Shelagh mostly agreeing with her, but still saying we need to be mindful of decent trans people who just want to get on with their lives

Good stuff. VERY different to most discussions of this issue

I'm listening and the woman on now, Eleanor, is brilliant!

Helen Joyce pointed out that middle class women supporting the GRRB and self ID for transwomen presumed they would never end up in prison. So to them, it doesn't matter. It's "over there" nowt do with us. Unseen so don't have to deal with it. Which is appalling because surely one of the definitions of being left-wing/progressive is caring about marginalised minorities and is there a more marginalised minority group that women in prison!?

'Which is appalling because surely one of the definitions of being left-wing/progressive is caring about marginalised minorities and is there a more marginalised minority group that women in prison!?'

Absolutely right

Thank you @Lottapianos

luxury beliefs for the most privileged.

Shelagh is always good on women's rights.

I once interviewed a woman who'd done part of her PhD about women in prison. The stories are heartbreaking. Women whipped away to prison without the chance to tell anyone to collect their children! No quarter given. No sense that sending a woman to jail is very different form sending men. Most female prisoners have children and the children can end up being sent into care if there's no one to look after them while their mother is inside.

Most women in jail are not violent and not a threat to society. Many have been abused. They are among the most vulnerable, marginalised minority, but it's unfashionable to care - as it is for all prisoners. But you can judge a society by how it treats its most marginalised. From children in care, old people in residential homes, people who are unemployed, people with very few resources, people who are homeless and prisoners. But as Joanna Cherry said on Times Radio this morning human rights are for everyone! And if they aren't for everyone then it's no longer accurate to talk about human rights.

Male MSP just said 'JK Rowling is not transphobic. Women who are concerned about their rights are not so-called 'TERFS'.

More good stuff!

luxury beliefs for the most privileged.

Now now @ArabellaScott remember we are talking about THE MOST MARGINALISED GROUP IN SOCIETY!!!!! ©The Labour Party

Shelagh mostly agreeing with her, but still saying we need to be mindful of decent trans people who just want to get on with their lives

Decent trans people can get on with their lives without being in women's spaces. Respecting the needs of women would be part of the 'decent' bit.

Men out of women's spaces. All of them. This has destruction tested it, and it's gone hideously wrong. This experiment is broken now beyond all repair. None. No men at all. Regardless of how they identify. All trans people's needs can be met without removing privacy, dignity, equality and basic human rights from women.

'Men out of women's spaces. All of them. This has destruction tested it, and it's gone hideously wrong. This experiment is broken now beyond all repair. None. No men at all. Regardless of how they identify. All trans people's needs can be met without removing privacy, dignity, equality and basic human rights from women.'

Spot on!

Men out of women's spaces. All of them. This has destruction tested it, and it's gone hideously wrong. This experiment is broken now beyond all repair. None. No men at all. Regardless of how they identify. All trans people's needs can be met without removing privacy, dignity, equality and basic human rights from women.

Absolutely this!

Tom Swarbrick now talking about it

Oh great. Tom S consistently good on this issue, really gets it

He just had a rant and it was good to hear

Tom Swarbrick has been talking openly about his GC views for a couple of years, bravely I think.

Yes Tom is very good on this. We need more men to speak up about it. Women are ignored. It's our voices. They can't hear them.

The wonderful Tom Conti was on World at One (radio 4) yesterday…they’d asked his opinion Ona stage production of Jesus Christ Superstar with females in the role of Jesus & Judas…
They obviously seemed to think he’d be in favour of this but instead said ‘men are men and women are women, I’m sure you’ve noticed’ (to words to that effect) He was very much against this ridiculous notion. He was immediately cut off…I can imagine the producer banging on the studio window shouting’thats not what we wanted him to say’… Long live Tom Conti!
sorry if someone has already said this….haven’t had time to read through all this thread.

Lottapianos · Today 15:32
Good discussion going on at the moment. Shelagh referring to 'biological men' in women's prisons

What a relief that she referred to biological sex.

If anyone hasn’t seen it yet, this petition started by Sex Matters is to update the Equality Act to make clear that the protected characteristic ‘sex’ means biological sex. It is a Parliamentary petition and anyone signing it will be anonymous.
⬇️
www.mumsnet.com/talk/petitions_noticeboard/4668426-petition-update-the-equality-act-to-make-clear-the-characteristic-sex-is-biological-sex?page=1

Tom - men are claiming that they are women, and it's just crazy. He sounds really quite fuming with the whole situation

Listening to this (and Shelagh before) is giving me life!

I've been waiting for Shelagh to finally get her teeth into this. I could tell by the tone of her voice whenever it briefly came up in the past that she was 'exercised' by it.

Tom - either you carry on indulging the fantasy, or you get to the reality

Wooh! He has fully, thoroughly peaked, and there's no going back. Good for him

Yeah I've always got that impression from Shelagh.

James O'Brien is very disappointing on this subject though.

'James O'Brien is very disappointing on this subject though.'

He's a complete prune, and has been utterly foul to women on this issue,but he will do a massive U turn one of these days, you'll see. He'll have to. The tide is turning