Gay Men's Network response to CPS Rape by deception consultation

[DennisNoelKavanaghOffTwitter]

Hope it's ok to start a thread here, just wanted to bring some prominence to our response which is now publicly available:

The Gay Men's Network has responded to the CPS consultation on sex crimes involving deceptions as to biological sex. In it, we warn of Institutional ideological capture, victim blaming and inequality before the law

Read our full response here (first link in letters and responses)

We include in our response a draft email for anyone who wants to write in supporting our submission at pages 34-35. If you wish to adapt the law or arguments in the response please feel completely free to do so.

Details on how to respond to the consultation are available at the CPS website here - it closes 19th December 2022.

If you support our work advocating for the interests of homosexual males, please consider donating, our work requires infrastructure and with more donations we can make more of a difference.

Stay tuned for the GMN response to the NHS Interim Service Specs consultation and a public communication on the Equal Treatment Benchbook among our other projects

Excellent response!

Very good indeed.

Only had time to read your exec summary, but it is indeed excellent.

The way you describe the document being framed in gender ideology is deeply disturbing. Well done for kicking back against this.

Hello @DennisNoelKavanaghOffTwitter
nice to see you here

Hi @DennisNoelKavanaghOffTwitter I can't get onto the website at the mo but will definitely have a look later. I love listening to you and Clive on Queen's speech.

Male Homosexuals can be victims of sex by deception offences and “stealthing” (the practice of trans identified females concealing their true biological sex) is a growing issue in homosexual male spaces.

Is it really? I never knew! More info would be very much appreciated.

Great response, thanks for the post.

I was hoping you'd post this Dennis, as my computer wouldn't let me access your Gay Men's Network website when I tried looking there.

I'm neither gay nor a man but don't somehow think that was why.

So thanks for posting.

a good response, I also liked your letter to Wickes 😁
is there a reason why you formed a separate organisation to the LGB alliance?

Spoke too soon - still get an error message about not being able to provide a secure connection.

Anyone know how to get round that?

It's not just you @Rightsraptor - I keep getting 'problem loading page' message. I'm hoping the website is just really busy and I'll be able to look later.

Some workplaces block our website because it features the words "Gay Men" and we apparently, as a constituency, are just a porn category now.

I used to have the same problem when I did work at Lesbian and Gay news logging into court hearings because the word "lesbian" is apparently (like us) also a porn category.........

I'm currenly working my way through the response to the consultation. It is really good. Thanks for your hard work in preparing it.

Your response certainly doesn't pull any punches! Do you receive the same backlash/vitriol as GC women?

I don't know if erasure of homosexuality by denial of same-sex attraction is a goal or a side-effect of "gender ideology" but I support my gay and lesbians brothers and sisters.

Well that's all very depressing.

you think that's bad, when I was at university studying midwifery I had sites blocked that were to do with survivors of rape and sexual assault
and my current employer blocks a community music organisation, apparently because it has video clips of music

Thanks Dennis!

Excellent, and agree with PP about the initial comment about the language used in the CPS document.

Gender ideology is becoming an important case study on what media/institutional/cultural capture means and how it happens. Framing language is a big part of this.

An excellent response. Thank you DennisNoelKavanaghOffTwitter

The CPS has been captured by some very unsavoury individuals / groups for many years. Their "trans guidelines" for schools (the ones that were pulled rather than be subject to scrutiny via a judicial review) displayed a worrying approach in removing safeguarding from children, the right to boundaries, the rights of the sexes to privacy from each other along with a determination to criminalise children's friendship / peer relationships.

I’m actually amazed by some of the deeply worrying stuff in that consultation. It’s great that you’ve gone to the effort of really unpacking it.

The victim blaming bits of the consultation are really shocking and depressing. The fact a major public service put that stuff in a consultation is awful.

It speaks volumes that CPS are throwing around phrases about being ‘blind to the obvious’ to discredit victims - to the extent that they will write them into policy and put it out for public consultation.

i also liked the total rejection of ‘queer’ and ‘genderqueer’ as acceptable terminology for public policy. That’s also remarkable evidence of the power gender ideology has had.

I really wish I could see GMN's response! Is it available anywhere else?

My main thought when I read through the CPS document is 'what's that got to do with it?' What is the relevance of how the suspect perceives their gender? Or what steps they've taken? Deception is deception. Sounds like more sacred caste stuff to me. But I don't know how to articulate my irritation at this.

<wonders whether Mermaids will be taking you to court for transphobia...>

Great response btw. Very thorough.

@titchy
I also wondered this!

Your work is amazing Dennis Noel, and you've gone to great lengths to dissect the consultation and respond accordingly.

I don't want to derail the thread, but does anyone know how lesbians have been affected by deception?

Is it a problem for lesbians too? Are male bodied transpeople able to deceive women to the same extent? I know transmen can be convincing because of the effects of testosterone, but on the same hand it's testosterone that makes transwomen less convincing so sex by deception may be less of a problem for lesbians? (Although overt guilt tripping from TW more common as a problem for lesbians).

I'd be interested to find a response from LGBA if there is one.

there was a whole thread the other day by a woman whose daughter had been deceived by a TW, they had not had sex but there had been snogging and they had shared a shower