M&S Changing Rooms

[Foxglove22]

It seems from these threads that M&S have decided that people can 'choose' which changing rooms they wish to use at their stores whilst not actually clearly marking them as mixed sex:

mobile.twitter.com/OnjaliRauf/status/1562365191458902016

mobile.twitter.com/marksandspencer/status/1562385003866075139

H&M and Primark have had unisex changing rooms since day 1 because they're cheaper to operate (I remember them being unisex 20years ago!). M&S is a fairly new thing which displays a shift in ideology.

That's not true. I remember a trans male kicking up a fuss because staff wouldn't let him use the female changing room in Primark. This will have been 2014 or 2015.

They’ve getting ratio’d to fuck but I diy f it’ll change anything

Twitter is everything to activists and nothing to the majority of the public. The complacent M&S executive team wouldn't find it so easy to ignore if people campaigned in person outside the front doors of multiple stores.

I sometimes get emails from M&S asking me to take part in surveys and every time I feed back about this issue. I don’t really expect them to care but I think it’s important to keep trying.

Primark launched its first unisex changing rooms in 2019, starting with the store in Bluewater. I remember that. I also remember shopping in Primark before 2019. I promise you, there were single-sex changing rooms!

metro.co.uk/2019/03/18/primark-launches-gender-neutral-changing-rooms-two-stores-8922410/

I think Topshop with Travis Alabanza was earlier.

It is happening now - it is already at that point.
Trans identifying men, as TW police officers, are permitted to do all aspects of a female police officers role.
Natal females have no say.

Advance search isn’t working for me on new MN, but I’m sure someone will have links to the threads discussing this.

A couple of years ago hundreds of us raised the issue in writing with M & S so they are well aware of what we think. They have made the choice to ignore women completely.

Then we must continue to ignore them, & use the power we do have by not buying from them.
Lidl has excellent school shirts and many other shops do good school shoes now.

Continuing to shop elsewhere is the only option, this thread reminded me to restock underwear for DH & DS which is another £100 not going to M&S (or John Lewis). Small in the scheme of things but I was an easy loyal customer.

Unfortunately as it was M&S or John Lewis that got me into town to shop the other shops/cafes that I’d pop into when I was in town are also losing out as I now go for online.

It's never actually occurred to me that changing rooms should be single sex unless they are communal (not seen one of those since the 90s). I regularly use changing rooms in men's departments with my daughter if there is a massive queue for the one in the women's dept and the kids one is closed (as is often the case in Zara for example).

I don't buy bras in M&S because they are crap for bigger boobs but have taken my daughter there and have never seen men using changing rooms in the lingerie dept. Just the normal uncomfortable looking husbands waiting outside .

I really feel for those of you who have had these horrid experiences and am not surprised you've boycotted M&S.

My local Marks have completely done away with the men's changing rooms so now the ladies are mixed sex. The changing rooms have lockable doors but with gaps at the top and the bottom. I have a friend who worked there and they once kicked up a fuss because a man was trying to use the ladies. I wonder if that's why they decided to close one changing room so people can't argue about who goes where.

I mentioned Travis Alabanza, there is a description of it here in this book review by Brendan O'Neill:

www.spiked-online.com/2022/08/21/the-dangerous-narcissism-of-the-trans-lobby/

"It" being the whole drama episode Travis caused, not Travis, for the avoidance of doubt.

Just making female spaces.mixed sex, increases the risk to women and girls and that should be enough.

Who benefits from this? Not women and girls that's for sure.

Great article - thanks

@Mglass

“I’m a female who works in STEM ...
I believe we only have two sexes which we are assigned at birth”

You think sex is assigned at birth and you work in STEM? God help us all!!

We need to get more women on board, M&S clothing sales increased by 18.6% last year

www.retail-insight-network.com/news/marks-spencer-sales-q3-2022/

Yes this is a worry that this term is being used by a female in STEM. Have you thought it through? I knew the sex of both of my children well before birth (as do lots of people). It’s another example of language being mangled so that it’s nonsensical because…..???

On the M & S point I think if they want to make their changing rooms mixed sex then that’s their prerogative but they should be clear about it. My Mum and my Nan are not on Twitter, regularly shop at M & S and would have no clue about this. If M & S see this as a good thing why aren’t they signing their changing rooms as mixed sex in store (because they definitely aren’t). It’s the same old, all of this stuff that erodes women’s safety is being done by stealth. Why?

I’d also like to point that I am pro trans rights but sometimes rights conflict and then they need to be balanced with rights of other groups of people. Whilst we are living in a society where huge numbers of women are subjected to violence and sexual assault by men and we have a male on female murder rate at 2 per week then my view is that women should be able to access single sex spaces particularly when they are at their most vulnerable (prison, a refuge, taking their clothes off). It’s not rocket science.

Good point QueenoftheAngles. M & S need to be challenged to be honest about their lack of concern for the safety and privacy of women and girls. Once they have labelled their lingerie changing rooms as mixed sex, then I will believe that they have their women customer's interests at heart. They need to own up to their preferences, their attachment to Stonewall and other dodgy organisations. Then women can make informed choices about whether they wish to risk a bra fitting alongside a man in the next door changing room - or not.

So many people under that tweet just don't get it, women aren't saying every TW is a predator or will do horrible things, we're saying once you let men into our spaces its a danger because any man could claim he's a woman now and be free to be disgusting or whatever because living as a woman my entire life (something TW don't know about) is a uniquely frightening and sobering thing because of the way men have treated me yelling out sexual things, making me uncomfortable generally being gross. I'm sick of it I just want single sex spaces I don't know why its so hard and so apparently hateful to want that.

I like mixed sex changing rooms personally.

Same here, much handier.

For verbalised bra fittings?

It's the insidious and secretive nature that is the problem.

At least be HONEST about what you are doing M&S!
Put the proper MIXED SEX signage on all the doors and actually let people know that they will be sharing their changing rooms with men.

If you are so confident that you are doing the right thing, then you would have no problem doing this, and letting the (I think) middle - older woman demographic who are your main customer base, KNOW your policy, most of whom I strongly suspect would not want to share these spaces.

But you wont do that, because you know it fucking stinks to high heaven and you want them to still spend their hard earned money with you, while fucking over their right to privacy, dignity and safety.

Sorry, but I don't understand why a mixed sex changing room would be handier for a woman trying on women's clothing. The only situation I can see where it might be handier is if you have a male child who is perhaps a little too old to come into a women's changing room with you but isn't yet comfortable waiting outside alone. In general though, I can't see any advantages of mixed sex changing rooms provided a changing room for women is situated beside the women's clothing. I can however see a lot of disadvantages, as outlined above.