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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Dame Kelly Holmes

96 replies

NotBadConsidering · 19/06/2022 11:05

Has come out as gay. I can’t decide which is more unsurprising: that she’s gay, or the news has been instantly derailed because she doesn’t toe the line on trans.

https://mobile.twitter.com/stonewalluk/status/1538409898798632961

Stonewall has some nerve. Where were they when Kelly’s relationship with Specialized bikes was targeted for being an apostate? And look at the names under that tweet. Former posters here and known monitors, just waiting to stick their oar in 😡.

Anyway, Dame Kelly, don’t let the bastards grind you down, I think you’re amazing.

OP posts:
TheWeeDonkey · 22/06/2022 13:38

ShirleyJackson · 19/06/2022 12:01

Was she ever in?

I long for the day when no announcement has to be made. I can’t believe ‘coming out’ is even still a thing.

It’s an anachronism, in a country with legal same-sex marriage, surely?

Agree, I've loved her since 2004 Olympics, she is such a huge Inspiration

bellinisurge · 22/06/2022 13:45

What @TerfyTheTransShiteNaysayer said. This woman is heroic on so many levels.

ShutOffTheLights · 22/06/2022 15:01

Literally every article I have seen about this says she is "gay". I have yet to see the word "lesbian" used by the media.

Artichokeleaves · 22/06/2022 17:08

ShutOffTheLights · 22/06/2022 15:01

Literally every article I have seen about this says she is "gay". I have yet to see the word "lesbian" used by the media.

Dig around a bit more and you'll find the tweets and explanation that if you're female, calling yourself a 'lesbian' is not a nice thing to do, because it implies (before anyone's even asked you) that you might be one of those horrible homosexual females who won't give sex to male people regardless of how the male people define themselves at the time.

The naice way to put it is 'queer' or 'pan' which makes it clear that as a female you are not declaring your body off limits to any males in unacceptable and evil ways.

If you're male and call yourself 'lesbian' however it's a round of applause and balloons and a party.

Which is why many of us now say 'Lesbian' looking people squarely in the eye in the same way we used to say 'dyke' back to other abusive, homophobic people. Bring on the ducking stools.

RainbowZebraWarrior · 22/06/2022 20:59

Artichokeleaves · 22/06/2022 17:08

Dig around a bit more and you'll find the tweets and explanation that if you're female, calling yourself a 'lesbian' is not a nice thing to do, because it implies (before anyone's even asked you) that you might be one of those horrible homosexual females who won't give sex to male people regardless of how the male people define themselves at the time.

The naice way to put it is 'queer' or 'pan' which makes it clear that as a female you are not declaring your body off limits to any males in unacceptable and evil ways.

If you're male and call yourself 'lesbian' however it's a round of applause and balloons and a party.

Which is why many of us now say 'Lesbian' looking people squarely in the eye in the same way we used to say 'dyke' back to other abusive, homophobic people. Bring on the ducking stools.

Show quote history

Yes, this. All my Lesbian friends say they are probably going to be eradicated from the original LGB.

Such a shame, as they are now seen as Bigots.

The people who struggled against the hatred of their sexuality 20, 30, 40 years ago are now being marginalised.

Surely inclusion should mean inclusion.

It's why I gave up on Internet dating.

KohlaParasaurus · 22/06/2022 21:20

When I heard the news that Dame Kelly Holmes had "come out" I said, "I'll be more impressed if she "comes out" against allowing males to take part in women's sporting competitions."

She is immense. The Twitter haters aren't even good enough to lick the dog shit off the soles off her shoes.

RosalindsAFuckingNightmare · 27/06/2022 09:44

Did anyone watch the programme yesterday? I found it incredibly moving. I couldn't see a thread though, which surprised me, so adding to this one.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 27/06/2022 09:56

When I heard the news that Dame Kelly Holmes had "come out" I said, "I'll be more impressed if she "comes out" against allowing males to take part in women's sporting competitions."

She did, quite early on. I think McKinnon/Ivy was at one point putting pressure on her sponsors to drop her.

Original poster
NotBadConsidering · 27/06/2022 10:11

She was dropped by Specialized as far as I can tell. Their tweet is still there:

https://mobile.twitter.com/iamspecialized/status/1103493290760892417

The fact that such an obnoxious male attacked her then and similar ilk attack her now still makes me so mad 😡

I would love to watch the documentary, is it online?

OP posts:
RunningUpThatHillWithNoProblem · 27/06/2022 10:37

Link to Kelly's documentary on ITV Hub

www.itv.com/hub/kelly-holmes-being-me/10a2938a0001

RunningUpThatHillWithNoProblem · 27/06/2022 10:39

Guardian write a glowing review. No doubt to the vexation of some of their employees.

www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2022/jun/26/kelly-holmes-being-me-review-a-victory-in-so-many-ways

FunnyTalks · 27/06/2022 10:40

TinselAngel · 19/06/2022 11:51

That made me realise I hadn't got Bespin (formally of this parish) blocked on Twitter.

Bpenis! Blast from the past!

RunningUpThatHillWithNoProblem · 27/06/2022 10:42

Lots of supportive comments cited in the DM

www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-10955443/Dame-Kelly-Holmes-hailed-inspiration-documentary-viewers-coming-gay.html

Clymene · 28/06/2022 08:27

RosalindsAFuckingNightmare · 27/06/2022 09:44

Did anyone watch the programme yesterday? I found it incredibly moving. I couldn't see a thread though, which surprised me, so adding to this one.

There's a thread in chat about it. Haven't watched yet.

She has been shortlisted for Celebrity of the Year in the National Diversity Awards.

Unfortunately this has resulted in so much targeted abuse that the awards have stopped comments and Dame Kelly has come off Twitter.

TRAs disgust me.

Original poster
NotBadConsidering · 28/06/2022 10:23

They can’t help themselves. The screenshot they use to back up their claims she’s transphobic is a very clear statement of boundaries of being same sex attracted. The homophobia is off the charts.

OP posts:
ThinkingaboutLangClegosaurus · 28/06/2022 13:27

Sending love and sisterly hugs to Dame Kelly. She is worth more than all her whining critics put together.

ApplesandBunions · 28/06/2022 14:52

Ereshkigalangcleg · 27/06/2022 09:56

When I heard the news that Dame Kelly Holmes had "come out" I said, "I'll be more impressed if she "comes out" against allowing males to take part in women's sporting competitions."

She did, quite early on. I think McKinnon/Ivy was at one point putting pressure on her sponsors to drop her.

Yep, just one more reason to admire her.

Torin · 28/06/2022 15:54

ContradictoryEvidence · 22/06/2022 11:28

Interview with Kelly explaining why she had to keep this quiet attached below.

People having a go at her on this thread for coming out should be fucking ashamed of themselves.

It was illegal in the Army to be gay until 2000 (context: that was the year Kelly won her first Olympic medal in Sydney). She was subject to barracks raids by her superiors, where they would try to find evidence amongst personal belongings that soldiers were gay. Army medals were taken away from soldiers discovered to be gay. Kelly had an MBE for services to the Army long before she was recognised by the wider public for her athletic achievements. Would you risk the public humiliation of having that taken away from you?

She had a tough childhood (spent time in care, a mixed race child with absent father in a very white town), and a documented history of self harm during all her injuries whilst trying to compete. I've followed her since she first emerged as a top flight athlete in the early 1990s. She was being constantly criticised for not being quite as good as she potentially could be. Athletes didn't have the lottery funding or mental and physical health support they have now. She was combining competing with a full on army career. She endured rumours about her and her training partner, Maria Mutola, which put immense pressure on that relationship and with their mutual coach, eventually leading them to break that working relationship when Kelly was coming back to form pre Athens 2004.

When she did finally reach top success in Athens (pretty much unaided by any formal coaching at that stage), there were many people who accused her of being a drugs cheat. She went overnight from fairly obscure runner, who once had potential but never quite made it, to the woman that saved the Athens Olympic from being a disaster for Team GB (it was supposed to have been Paula Radcliffe's golden moment that year). She was catapulted into the limelight. She retired pretty soon afterwards and then had to carve out a new life for herself.

She used her post Athens fame to start an academy for emerging teen girl athletes. I'm sure there would have been lots of scurrilous rumours about her doing this whilst openly lesbian.

Add to all that pressure over all the phases of her life being an open lesbian. Don't forget, her awareness of her sexuality spanned the 1980s and 1990s, when being openly gay was downright dangerous, and certainly not as easy as it is now. Adding another layer of "difference" to her already difficult childhood, her struggles with self harm and later public image? She would have been torn to shreds. Just the fear of it would have been enough. Her mum died and she had a breakdown and she is now out at the age of 52. Just think of all the personal happiness she has had to pass up out of fear of being out or outed.

And all the while, she's had the bravery to speak up against drugs cheats in sport (got criticised for that too) and against the current attacks on female sport.

So the detractors on this thread and the TRAs can really go to hell. If they had an ounce of this amazing woman's strength, resilience, spirit or integrity, they would be lucky indeed. I doubt that they do.

Wow, thank you! Excellent post and what an amazing woman!!

JacquelineCarlyle · 28/06/2022 19:24

She is a phenomenal lady!

Ramblingnamechanger · 04/10/2022 00:09

Very annoyed as Dame Kelly’s campaign for lesbians and gay men sacked from the army in the past to get compensation, now seems to to have turned into a campaign for all LGBTQ people. This was on ITV news today, and is totally misrepresenting what actually happened to lesbians and gay men. The other initials had zilch to worry about.. but as always , about the others.

BitossiBlues · 05/10/2022 16:37

That was the one bit of her documentary that irked me, the obligatory TW at the table speaking about a discrimination they had never actually experienced. I am pretty sure KH would not have been allowed to have the conversation without a TQ+ presence. Given her very firmly held views on TW in female sport, she must have had to bite her tongue. Presumably she now has to work hand in hand with he army (yet another captured organisation) for her campaign, and as a serving officer therefore has to kiss the ring.

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