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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Dame Kelly Holmes

96 replies

NotBadConsidering · 19/06/2022 11:05

Has come out as gay. I can’t decide which is more unsurprising: that she’s gay, or the news has been instantly derailed because she doesn’t toe the line on trans.

https://mobile.twitter.com/stonewalluk/status/1538409898798632961

Stonewall has some nerve. Where were they when Kelly’s relationship with Specialized bikes was targeted for being an apostate? And look at the names under that tweet. Former posters here and known monitors, just waiting to stick their oar in 😡.

Anyway, Dame Kelly, don’t let the bastards grind you down, I think you’re amazing.

OP posts:
NellWilsonsWhiteHair · 19/06/2022 15:30

Doyoumind · 19/06/2022 14:01

I see it's the usual suspects in the responses on that thread. They don't give a shit about anything but their own agenda. They're quick to respond because they realise that as someone who can legitimately talk about sport and is a lesbian who opposes males in female sport she is a threat to their narrative.

Exactly.

I'm really happy to see this news (it is rather Jodie Foster like in terms of "does it still count as coming out when surely everyone knows this already?!") and I wish her all the best. I was a teenager when she got her double gold and had a huge crush on her Grin

KatVonlabonk · 19/06/2022 18:09

Oh I'm loving the trans activist twitter meltdown.

They are so ridiculous.

Best wishes to Kelly for her future! ❤

WalrusSubmarine · 19/06/2022 19:39

We’ve only just had the first openly gay footballer come out so yes, I think it is still important for people to ‘come out’ if they feel able to.

(From the Stonewall reaction It’s pretty obvious that the L in LGBTIQ is only there for funding and lobbying purposes- they don’t seem to give a shit about them in real terms)

wotsitsaremyfave · 19/06/2022 19:46

I never knew Dame Kelly was in the closet so that's been a surprise to me today

CandyLeBonBon · 19/06/2022 20:07

ancientgran · 19/06/2022 11:54

It seems very self important to make an announcement. Does anyone care?

Did you say the same about Rebel Wilson? Or the recent young footballer who came out? Sadly homophobia/lesbophobia are still very prevalent. That's why so many people - especially in the public eye - are reticent about coming out - because people (fans) will make assumptions about them and sponsors/funding can dry up if that public image is challenged. It's absolutely disgusting. It's not as bad as it was in the golden age of Hollywood but it's not massively improved, hence the big hoohaa - because there is STILL so much stigma attached to being sane sex attracted.

NotBadConsidering · 19/06/2022 22:20

ancientgran · 19/06/2022 13:20

So her views on trans issues is more important than anyone else's? If she thinks that then double the self important bit.

How the hell can you come up with “self important” from this? I think it’s important, it’s not Dame Kelly who thinks it.

It’s me who thinks it’s important that there is someone for young lesbians, particularly sporty ones, to look up to, someone who can give them the strength to hold the line in their protection of women’s sport in the face of abuse from the so called “LGBTQIA+ community”. To show them they’re not alone, and they don’t have to capitulate to the T if they want to be accepted for who they are and if they come out and are abused for being an trans apostate too, at least they’re in good - amazing, inspiring - company.

OP posts:
nocoolnamesleft · 19/06/2022 22:27

She's a pretty cool role model.

BraveBananaBadge · 19/06/2022 23:30

See our friend Willoughby on Twitter saying "I'll pass on welcoming Dame Kelly Holmes to the LGBT family".

Oh but India, IT'S PRIDE MONTH!

I've never seen such abuse in response to someone coming out. A lot of sunlight today.

SausageAndCash · 20/06/2022 00:18

To PPs who wonder about her ‘announcement’: she hasn’t made a ‘self important’ ‘announcement’: she did an interview on her feelings of terror that her Olympic success would lead to people making public that she had had relationships with women while in the army. And that she was afraid for years, even after the army removed their ban, that she would be retrospectively punished. So a serious discussion about the long term effects of discrimination against homosexuality/ lesbians.

ChuckBerrysBoots · 20/06/2022 00:27

I was more surprised to learn that she is 52! I had somehow got it into my head that she competed in London 2012 and was thinking to myself how impressive a feat that was at 42. Lost 8 years in there somewhere.

Fenella123 · 20/06/2022 00:37

She wasn't officially out-out, but for years and indeed decades even the Daily Fail have been running "Kelly Holmes goes shopping with her friend/PA" stories, and, well, all the rest, so anyone with eyes and a gossipy interest knew. Or would, anyway, have been extremely surprised if she'd started going about with a boyfriend! Yeah. "We" all knew.

It's a tricky situation - imagine all the horrible or unsettling people you've run into over your life. The bug-eyed psychos with the deranged ideas about what women can or can't do... And what they would do to them if they did.

How much do you want them to NOT know about your private life? Now multiply that by millions because you're in the public eye....

Daisyroseandhyacinth · 20/06/2022 01:03

I just honestly don’t think anyones sexuality is a matter for discussion. It’s her private business. It doesn’t have anything to do with her fans.

NotBadConsidering · 20/06/2022 01:43

Daisyroseandhyacinth · 20/06/2022 01:03

I just honestly don’t think anyones sexuality is a matter for discussion. It’s her private business. It doesn’t have anything to do with her fans.

What IS a matter of discussion is how such an amazing woman publicly acknowledging her sexual orientation is greeted by trans activists telling her to “eat a dick” because she doesn’t think males should compete in women’s sport.

https://mobile.twitter.com/notCursedE/status/1538533069522718721

OP posts:
IdisagreeMrHochhauser · 20/06/2022 01:53

It's great. I agree with you OP. It's no surprise but I'm really happy she's chosen to publicly be herself. Considering how amazing she is, she always appears to lack self-confidence. She's being horrendously bullied on social media.

Lesbian role models in the public eye are few and far between. More power to her elbow.

LetitiaLeghorn · 20/06/2022 02:42

I was surprised when I read her announcement because I thought she'd already said that she in a relationship with a woman.

I thought she was amazing to win those 2 gold medals but other than that I knew very little about her, other than she was gay. I mean, is she sure she hadn't already announced it? I'm amazed really how boring these announcements are. Who really cares these days?

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 20/06/2022 03:35

All power to her. I hope this was voluntary and that she hasn't been forced to comment on her personal life by intrusive press.

Dame Kelly has always been amazing, and that hasn't changed.

Joystir59 · 20/06/2022 03:39

ancientgran · 19/06/2022 11:54

It seems very self important to make an announcement. Does anyone care?

It's really important that lesbians come out! We are being erased by current trans ideology. Go DKH!

Joystir59 · 20/06/2022 03:54

LetitiaLeghorn · 20/06/2022 02:42

I was surprised when I read her announcement because I thought she'd already said that she in a relationship with a woman.

I thought she was amazing to win those 2 gold medals but other than that I knew very little about her, other than she was gay. I mean, is she sure she hadn't already announced it? I'm amazed really how boring these announcements are. Who really cares these days?

I care. It's important that lesbians come out, as we are being erased by current trans ideology. LGB all the way!

ImJustMadAboutSaffron · 20/06/2022 14:17

MrsOvertonsWindow · 19/06/2022 12:28

She's also a Black woman. And as we see played out daily (and from all those nasty Stonewall followers), this white male dominated ideology takes a perverse pleasure in targeting Black women.

She's biracial. What thread on here has she been abused on? I hope the moderators have closed it down.

IdisagreeMrHochhauser · 20/06/2022 14:33

It's probably a generic comment on all the rhetoric about TWAW if black women are women. Outrageously racist.

ImJustMadAboutSaffron · 20/06/2022 23:46

I've seen lots of posts on the Daily Mail site "stunning and brave" repetitively. Are they trying to be facetious?

Apollo442 · 21/06/2022 00:12

ImJustMadaboutSaffro
She's biracial. What thread on here has she been abused on? I hope the moderators have closed it down.

They were referring to the usual suspects that like to monitor our posts abusing her on twitter I believe.

ContradictoryEvidence · 22/06/2022 11:28

Interview with Kelly explaining why she had to keep this quiet attached below.

People having a go at her on this thread for coming out should be fucking ashamed of themselves.

It was illegal in the Army to be gay until 2000 (context: that was the year Kelly won her first Olympic medal in Sydney). She was subject to barracks raids by her superiors, where they would try to find evidence amongst personal belongings that soldiers were gay. Army medals were taken away from soldiers discovered to be gay. Kelly had an MBE for services to the Army long before she was recognised by the wider public for her athletic achievements. Would you risk the public humiliation of having that taken away from you?

She had a tough childhood (spent time in care, a mixed race child with absent father in a very white town), and a documented history of self harm during all her injuries whilst trying to compete. I've followed her since she first emerged as a top flight athlete in the early 1990s. She was being constantly criticised for not being quite as good as she potentially could be. Athletes didn't have the lottery funding or mental and physical health support they have now. She was combining competing with a full on army career. She endured rumours about her and her training partner, Maria Mutola, which put immense pressure on that relationship and with their mutual coach, eventually leading them to break that working relationship when Kelly was coming back to form pre Athens 2004.

When she did finally reach top success in Athens (pretty much unaided by any formal coaching at that stage), there were many people who accused her of being a drugs cheat. She went overnight from fairly obscure runner, who once had potential but never quite made it, to the woman that saved the Athens Olympic from being a disaster for Team GB (it was supposed to have been Paula Radcliffe's golden moment that year). She was catapulted into the limelight. She retired pretty soon afterwards and then had to carve out a new life for herself.

She used her post Athens fame to start an academy for emerging teen girl athletes. I'm sure there would have been lots of scurrilous rumours about her doing this whilst openly lesbian.

Add to all that pressure over all the phases of her life being an open lesbian. Don't forget, her awareness of her sexuality spanned the 1980s and 1990s, when being openly gay was downright dangerous, and certainly not as easy as it is now. Adding another layer of "difference" to her already difficult childhood, her struggles with self harm and later public image? She would have been torn to shreds. Just the fear of it would have been enough. Her mum died and she had a breakdown and she is now out at the age of 52. Just think of all the personal happiness she has had to pass up out of fear of being out or outed.

And all the while, she's had the bravery to speak up against drugs cheats in sport (got criticised for that too) and against the current attacks on female sport.

So the detractors on this thread and the TRAs can really go to hell. If they had an ounce of this amazing woman's strength, resilience, spirit or integrity, they would be lucky indeed. I doubt that they do.

NotBadConsidering · 22/06/2022 11:42

Well said TerfyTheTransShiteNaysayer. And after all that as part of her life, when she finally does come out, a load of males on Twitter call her a transphobe for maintaining that lesbians are same-sex attracted. They really are a despicable, homophobic, misogynistic bunch.

OP posts:
puffyisgood · 22/06/2022 13:33

ContradictoryEvidence · 22/06/2022 11:28

Interview with Kelly explaining why she had to keep this quiet attached below.

People having a go at her on this thread for coming out should be fucking ashamed of themselves.

It was illegal in the Army to be gay until 2000 (context: that was the year Kelly won her first Olympic medal in Sydney). She was subject to barracks raids by her superiors, where they would try to find evidence amongst personal belongings that soldiers were gay. Army medals were taken away from soldiers discovered to be gay. Kelly had an MBE for services to the Army long before she was recognised by the wider public for her athletic achievements. Would you risk the public humiliation of having that taken away from you?

She had a tough childhood (spent time in care, a mixed race child with absent father in a very white town), and a documented history of self harm during all her injuries whilst trying to compete. I've followed her since she first emerged as a top flight athlete in the early 1990s. She was being constantly criticised for not being quite as good as she potentially could be. Athletes didn't have the lottery funding or mental and physical health support they have now. She was combining competing with a full on army career. She endured rumours about her and her training partner, Maria Mutola, which put immense pressure on that relationship and with their mutual coach, eventually leading them to break that working relationship when Kelly was coming back to form pre Athens 2004.

When she did finally reach top success in Athens (pretty much unaided by any formal coaching at that stage), there were many people who accused her of being a drugs cheat. She went overnight from fairly obscure runner, who once had potential but never quite made it, to the woman that saved the Athens Olympic from being a disaster for Team GB (it was supposed to have been Paula Radcliffe's golden moment that year). She was catapulted into the limelight. She retired pretty soon afterwards and then had to carve out a new life for herself.

She used her post Athens fame to start an academy for emerging teen girl athletes. I'm sure there would have been lots of scurrilous rumours about her doing this whilst openly lesbian.

Add to all that pressure over all the phases of her life being an open lesbian. Don't forget, her awareness of her sexuality spanned the 1980s and 1990s, when being openly gay was downright dangerous, and certainly not as easy as it is now. Adding another layer of "difference" to her already difficult childhood, her struggles with self harm and later public image? She would have been torn to shreds. Just the fear of it would have been enough. Her mum died and she had a breakdown and she is now out at the age of 52. Just think of all the personal happiness she has had to pass up out of fear of being out or outed.

And all the while, she's had the bravery to speak up against drugs cheats in sport (got criticised for that too) and against the current attacks on female sport.

So the detractors on this thread and the TRAs can really go to hell. If they had an ounce of this amazing woman's strength, resilience, spirit or integrity, they would be lucky indeed. I doubt that they do.

semi related, it was difficult at the time, and maybe even harder now, to avoid the suspicion that Ms Mutola might have had a Y chromosome tucked away somewhere?