Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 2

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal
select the video and mic that are not crossed out, this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, barrister for SW
RW = Robin White assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 1 👇

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

I think she's peaking many more people and making people like me brave enough to speak out. Enough is enough now and your time has come.

The public aren't interested, the single articles the Times/Telegraph/DM have posted are just preaching to the choir for clicks at this stage.

The Daily Mail didn't mention the "Respect My Sex" campaign after 25/4 in the run up to the elections as it didn't gain enough traction IRL.

Even GB News and Talkradio have moved on from "What Is A Woman?" clickbait now.

But come on, show us your evidence. What reason do you have for thinking it's all going badly for Allison?

Or don’t, because it won’t be anything other than the usual DARVO-fuelled hyperbolic claptrap we’ve heard a thousand times before.

This is what you'd like to think but it's not true.

I used to be kind and compassionate but I've had it to the back teeth with this homophobic ideology now and I won't stand for it.

I think Stonewall is a lost cause. The trust has gone and I doubt I could ever believe that they represent my rights or my needs as a same sex attracted person anymore. But we have our own organisations now and will continue to champion causes and people that represent us.

You might try to mock, belittle or even envy and mimic us, but you'll never be as strong and resilient as we are.

I'm sure AB has put her witness statement in the public domain and, as she's a barrister, I imagine that's legal. So we can comment. Yet I am nervous, as I said last night. Shocking really.

DoM, have you read Allison's witness statement? All 167 pages of it? I and many of us here have. No place of business should behave as Garden Court did.

Before this trans shit show my image of Chambers was positively Rumpolian (Rumpole of the Bailey - just noticed the link with Allison's name 😀). Now it's closer to The Torture House in Budapest, with its secret listening devices and concealed rooms. (Not suggesting physical torture went in at GCC, though it seems mental torture did).

I wonder what all this will do for their business?

You do realise the word 'cult' has an actual definition and you need to demonstrate that there is an actual similarity, as opposed to just copying any word used by MNetters and randomly hurling it about as mud about in the hope that some of it might stick?

Engage the brain ffs.

This is what you'd like to think but it's not true.

But it is true, the DM dropped it when the shares/comments dropped over the three articles they published.

The google trends graphs for "respect my sex" show the decrease in interest for each subsequent article.

Question for legally-knowledgeable mnetters: do you know whether there is, may be, or is forbidden to be, any cross-talk between employment tribunal cases? Does the Forstater judgement get deliberately delayed until after the AB case has been heard, and/or does the EJ in the latter get given a heads-up about what's coming re the former?

Meh, so what? You'll have same for most stories, you must be aware of an expression 'yesterday's news'.

This is an ongoing case, and the coverage is only starting, so there appears to be plenty of sunshine on Stonewall and GCC to come. But you may relax in your certainty that public doesn't care, and let us silly women on Mumsnet hope in vain, how about that? Unless you have anything constructive to add?

'Yesterday's news' - you've hit the nail on the head 👏

Here are the two AB stores so far, both shoehorning in JKR for reader interest.

Interesting how 'no one cares! no one can hear you! give up because it's pointless and hopeless!' are messages that male-centric people feel it's important to give so much time and energy to.

It's almost as if they're afraid that what they're saying isn't true, and therefore working hard to discourage women is really important and urgent .

Puuuuuullllllll.

The 'respect my sex' was certainly noticed at at least one ballot count and attention drawn to it. And this was only a council election in most cases.

well you know DM we will see won’t we when the tribunal starts again on Monday

Let's keep this thread on track. We'll need a new one soon. Happy to discuss DM reader figures when they come up in the tribunal.

Was the sun shining the day the second article came out? Were the Mail readers all in their garden or at the seaside? Was it a weekend? What time of day did the article appear? Did it show up on the front page? Was it promoted? All these things make a massive difference to the views and likes. The world isn't all about likes and recommendations and if you're pinning your hopes on support ebbing away you're in for a nasty surprise.

I was in a small town in Wales yesterday, publicising Sex Matters and the WRN, and the number of women who stopped to talk to us and took leaflets and agreed with us and wanted to join and get involved took us by surprise. Many of them were very on top of the subject, and so were some of the men. Some of them even wanted to give us money 'for the cause', even though we weren't collecting. That's how much no one cares.

iirc, tribunal resumes with AB tomorrow?

I had rejigged my schedule to be able to attend some of the tribunal but other people have had life happens events (sadly) that means we need to convene in the time I'd set aside.

I'm so disappointed that I won't be able to tune into the tribunal until Friday (if then) because it looks like I'll miss most of AB and she's so impressive that it would be like following along in a masterclass of how to handle interruptions and passive aggressive remarks that flirt with rudeness.

@Deadmemeasaurus the coverage has only just begun as @LK1972 pointed out. I am sure there are a few big reveals to come that will make for some more headlines.

And compared this coverage, however insubstantial you deem it to be, to only a few years ago when no major media outlet would have been interested enough to cover the story. Even the Guardian has acknowledged that this tribunal is happening.

No debate is over that cannot serve the MRA/TRAs well.

Sunlight is bursting through. Win or lose, Stonewall are finished, the reputation of GCC is in shreds. That for me, is justice, irrespective of what verdict is given at this tribunal.

Interesting to see the newspaper figures. Where can these be accessed normally?

So Respect my sex is an excellent campaign, not as suitable fro council elections, possibly, as for General Election. And there's plenty of time to gather steam and recognition before that, last few weeks was a good start, as Pluvia's post eloquently demonstrates.

This tribunal is ongoing, as is showing us exactly what institutional capture looks like. I'm looking forward to next week, and undoubtedly continuing coverage. Headlines? Who knows, maybe not, last week was illuminating though.

Interestingly, it does show that some people's social media activism, including on this forum, seems to take so much of their time that their professional capacities appear to be affected.

Thank you again, Allison, for your bravery to stand up to what you believe is right. I, for one, am fully behind you!

Interestingly, it does show that some people's social media activism, including on this forum, seems to take so much of their time that their professional capacities appear to be affected.

Yes. It follow on from a review of their co-authored book which is notable for needing an update almost immediately after publication and was criticised for defects of structure, clarity of purpose and editing in addition to being disappointing in almost all matters of substance, iirc.

I, for one, would benefit from having a definitive bundle, with proper disclosure of all relevant documents, and accurate pagination or a reliable means of converting it. This would help me to follow along when I catch up with the commentary here or from Tribunal Tweets.

I realise this isnt your fault, but I cannot see the text.
Could you type it out for the rest of us?

@Deadmemeasaurus

This article has 598 comments, vast majority thoughtful, measured and supportive.

Stonewall’s activism is ‘like protection racket’

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c7d32c72-cca1-11ec-bb1d-4e283d8ec187?shareToken=31b1bf4ac2726fb7954e90537ecd3117

And this one, from only less than 5 months ago, has only 123 comments, although also mostly supportive.

So by your logic, GC support has risen by 486% over last 5 months amongst the Times reader, whilst the DM readers are losing interest.

Although it's a stupid way to measure support , I think I'm still content with the situation described above.

Sorry, second article, from Dec 21, didn't attach.

Stonewall ‘wanted lawyer punished for trans views’

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/38e8fcb2-5217-11ec-8d72-b8ab431649b1?shareToken=1d8f5bc71403ff8149e34645b83af283

But they were too busy monitoring what we're talking about and telling us that EHRC is all wrong with their new guidance, how dare you prioritize your silly needs for clear pagination of the bundle

Interestingly, it does show that some people's social media activism, including on this forum, seems to take so much of their time that their professional capacities appear to be affected.

oh, the bundle catastrophe was the responsibility of the off-camera friend of this forum?

I am laughing very hard right now. (Hope Atwood was right in her theories about women’s laughter.)

I do hope Deadme doesn't have a tribunal to prepare for. Please, if you do, Deadmemesaurus, put the phone away and do some work, otherwise you're going to embarrass everyone, it has happened before

It is rather hilarious