Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 2

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The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal
select the video and mic that are not crossed out, this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, barrister for SW
RW = Robin White assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 1 👇

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Interesting, IO for SW cross-examines SL while AH for GCC re-examines him.

Now Mr Hochhauser.

Interesting, IO for SW cross-examines SL while AH for GCC re-examines him.

I guess because they are separately the respondents. Potentially their interests could be different in terms of this case.

He did. He was involved in the GRA training in 2018 (it's on YouTube) and there is a long transcript of discussion about self-ID, single sex spaces etc
Ah thanks I hadn't clocked the order things happened in. I'm following the tweets not watching.

That’s precisely it. If their interests were 100% aligned I’d be objecting to any “cross examination” that was actually leading the witness to helpful answers. If you can get away with it as a co-respondent it can be very helpful.

I thought it was interesting that SL acknowledged that there was, and he knew there was, a concern in chambers that after a year it was not getting value for money from being a Stonewall diversity champion. But he renewed anyway.

I'm hoping at some point GCC and Stonewall might start blaming each other.

SL is done.

Lisa Marie Taylor is next witness for AB.

Next witness is Lisa-Marie Taylor for the Claimant.

For someone so allegedly utterly ignorant of Stonewalls campaign & activism re Trans Rights the current witness, Mr L has managed to dress himself, two days in a row, in the Trans Flag colours

Exactly @Crafting1Queen ! He's trolling the tribunal with that blatant dichotomy.

My screen froze and so I logged out and logged in again. I'm in the tribunal and shown on the list of participants but I can't see or hear anything. Too many people taking an interest!

today the tie says it all really.

Could someone describe the tie?

Do we know what order the witnesses are being called?

I gave up and logged out for a while - partly because I have to do some work, but also because I just couldn’t stand listening to SL prevaricating any more.

It's FiLiA now

It's a very pretty pink and blue striped tie, Manderley.

Looks expensive, too...but subtle it ain't - colours have been firmly nailed to the mast.

😂😂😂

It disappeared. I think we are all being logged back in now?

The issues with page numbers is doing my head in - how can they get it so wrong! By the time they have posted the relevant page number often the discussion has moved on to the next one.

BC has the patience of a saint

They always do in Law and Order on the telly when there are two defendants. It's a rule of TV justice.

Yes, this.

Mr Lue has obviously never been a woman. Maybe he should self-ID as one to gain the experience of what it's like to be constantly told by men what you are and how much you're worth.

It starts about 8-11 Mr Lue, random comments from men on the street telling you you're ugly or pretty or frigid or a whore. It particularly happens when you have the temerity to say 'no'.

Telling women they're 'cis' or 'birthing bodies' or 'bleeders' or whatever is exactly the same just from men who think they're progressive and controlling women and denying them the chance to say 'no' is ok as long as you're woke.

I think a lot of transwomen are surprised by what they think is 'transphobia' but is in fact just a diluted version of the rage and abuse many men display towards women every single day.

One of the sick jokes of the TRA movement is that self-ID in reality means that women can't self-ID- they can't ID as people worthy of the privacy, dignity and safety of single sex spaces.

13% on feedback forms is pretty good return in my experience.

I'm still scanning my way through the evidence bundle. I'm not seeing the smoking gun yet (I know that isn't what people want to hear).

@tabbycatstripy I thought the letter from Stonewall to GCC detailing AB's "crimes", basically threatening to cut ties with them (and hence inflicting reputational damage) and saying in closing "I trust you'll do what's right", was fairly damning

More YouGov-based misrepresentation of who is "gender critical" coming up.