Maya Forstater Tribunal March 2022- Thread 4

[Whatamesssss]

Thread one, here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4498167-Maya-Forstater-hearing-starts-Monday

Thread two, here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4505825-Maya-Forstater-Tribunal-March-2022-Thread-2?pg=1

Thread three, here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4507443-Maya-Forstater-Tribunal-March-2022-Thread-3

Abbreviations:
BC = Ben Cooper QC, counsel for
MF = Maya Forstater - Claimant
AP = Anya Palmer, assisting BC
OD = Olivia Dobbie, counsel for the respondents
EJ = Employment judge, leading the panel
Panel = any one of the 3 members

CGDE (CGD Europe) – Respondent 1

CGD = Centre for Global Development – Respondent 2

LE = Luke Easley, Vice president for HR and operations at CGD, first witness for CGD
AG = Amanda Glassman, Chief Operating Officer, Senior Fellow and Board Secretary of CGD and a Trustee of CGD(Europe), second witness for CGD
MP = Mark Plant, Chief Operating Officer of CGD Europe, third witness for CGD
MA = Masood Ahmed, President of CGD and Chair of the Board of CGDE – Respondent 3, fourth witness for CGD

EM = Ellen MacKenzie, an off-stage character at CGD, involved in much that went on.

Maya's website has lots of relevant information and is collating the live tweets.
www.hiyamaya.net

twitter.com/tribunaltweets is the account to look at for the live tweets. Plus some live posting and discussion on these threads.

It is all online. If you want to watch you need to email the tribunal for a log in to [email protected]

They will send you pin number and a link to log in to the tribunal.

I don't think the fact that CGD failed to protect MAYA from bulling for her beliefs has been raised by BC has it?

The argument has been limited to she is entitled to those protected beliefs.

@MayaWasSackedForGCBeliefs

I don't think the fact that CGD failed to protect MAYA from bulling for her beliefs has been raised by BC has it?

The argument has been limited to she is entitled to those protected beliefs.

He has dealt with it at length and compared it to racism.

EJ: Obviously there's a great public interest in the case...

Yes, there is!

A great public interest indeed

Some days of deliberations including 7 April and judge can't predict how far they'll have got by then. He's saying it's open as to when they might issue the judgment. Complicated. "It will take some time before the public hears anything."

The website stuff is pretty funny imo. They deleted her from the website, and then deleted EVERY OTHER alumnus from the website after the tribunal claim highlighted her deletion as additional victimisation.

The university of York allegedly did a similar thing with Professor Louise Moody I think to avoid accusations of singling her out.

its a wrap!

@MayaWasSackedForGCBeliefs

I don't think the fact that CGD failed to protect MAYA from bulling for her beliefs has been raised by BC has it?

The argument has been limited to she is entitled to those protected beliefs.

I think the victimisation element is in the heads of claim? Might be talking out of my arse though.

Well that was all absolutely fascinating. Well done to both counsel and for the tribunal being set up for us all to watch.

So it might not be out ahead of Allison Bailey's case.

Obviously it wouldn't have a binding effect on it anyway, but I thought it might be out.

He has dealt with it at length and compared it to racism.
thanks @tabbycatstripy - totally missed that but I'm very happy it was covered.

Yes it's been managed very well for all the spectators!

I think the victimisation element is in the heads of claim? Might be talking out of my arse though.

I'm going to spend some time over the next few weeks going over the 2500+ page bundle

As I understood it Ereshkigalangcleg at quickest the decision will come out at the soonest weeks after their final scheduled day of deliberation on 7 April.

Well done Maya for your perseverence

Hope you can take a breather now.

Gah, had to take a call and missed the end!

So we wait for the outcome and it might not be until the summer.
I'm sorry that Maya on that.

However - we already have quite a victory. This polite and thoughtful setting-out of the cases was so different to the usual 'no debate' followed by a chorus of 'transphobe; transphobe; burn-the-witch!'

sorry for

Indeed, it's good to have the debate out in the open. Both counsels did a great job. It's anyone's guess what the outcome will be.

@similarminimer

I find the BC=hero, OD is a baddie implications a bit silly.

For all we know OD is a TERF and BC a TRA. They're both highly skilled professionals doing their job. If the case wasn't properly argued and there were errors in law, then potentially would leave any judgement open to appeal. Lets hope this is is all done as well as it can be by both sides.

I would've said most posters on these four threads have been quite complimentary towards Olivia and her abilities. It's a dog of a case, obviously, which has necessitated her to say some stupid shit at times, but plenty of us have pointed out that she's got an impressive employment law background and has been professional throughout.

Absolutely fascinating, huge thanks to everyone here for clarification on some of the finer points, book recommendations and all the times you've made laugh out loud. Hopefully Maya will get the outcome she deserves. Cheers all.

Thanks for all the reporting, especially Tabby.

Who were some of the more well-known onilne observers?

I'm wondering where OD thinks she has been misquoted on MumsNet

I'm so glad I didn't find out till Monday, that you could log in and listen, it's been fascinating and I would have had to take time off work if there had been any more days.

I've got it on in the background while I work, my ears pricked up when she said "mumsnet" and "pornography", what exactly did she say?!