Maya Forstater Tribunal March 2022- Thread 2

[Sophoclesthefox]

Forgive the presumption, @Mforstater, but you’re probably busy in the pub right now, or passing on all of the fan mail to you legal team so I’ve made a new thread to carry on the fascinating discussion.

Round up your cats, rabbits and weasels, and let’s go!

——————————————————————————————

From thread one, here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4498167-Maya-Forstater-hearing-starts-Monday

Hi all,

Thank you so much for all your support: emotional, intellectual, financial, spiritual(!) reading the Mumsnet feminism board is where this all started for me!

The case starts tomorrow.

It is all online. If you want to watch you need to email the tribunal for a log in to [email protected]

It kicks off at 10am - the first bit will be "admin" between the judges and the lawyers working out the timings, issues and any reporting restrictions hmm.

Once that is all sorted the judge and the panel will go away to read (probably for the rest of Monday and all of Tuesday)

I will most likely give evidence Wednesday and Thursday.

@tribunaltweets will be tweeting the whole thing (assuming they get permission from the judge)

Links to papers will go up throughout the case at www.hiyamaya.net.

Any other questions I am happy to answer them (apart from the ones where I have to say "that is for the tribunal to hear"...)

I have made a spectators guide with FAQs etc here

Lots of love

Maya

AG says she was sharing something she had seen that was relevant, for discussion. But not with the intent to 'educate' MF out of her beliefs.

It is horrendously transphobic to say that you know how the hand identifies. Perhaps it is a non-binary hand ?

In Maya the Movie I want Damien Lewis to play Ben Cooper

Mandatory name check for Fausto-Sterling.

@OvaHere

I'm a bit flabbergasted at someone who has so much difficulty hearing the word penis spoke out loud is a big advocate of allowing said penises to go wherever they want.

It's such a contradiction isn't it.

AG sent MF an article entitled 'Why sex is not binary.' BC argues this is trying to educate MF out of her beliefs. Points out that AG commented that the complexity is biological, not just cultural. She tried to persuade MF.

AG said that wasn't her comment, that it automatically does this from the NYT. BC says she said 'Here is a story from the NYT that you might find interesting.'

@tabbycatstripy

AG says she was sharing something she had seen that was relevant, for discussion. But not with the intent to 'educate' MF out of her beliefs.

Double standards - when MF shares stuff she believes is relevant and for discussion she is trying to educate them out of their views but the other way round....

AG falls back on the Professor's credentials. BC points out that AG's actions weren't neutral, she wanted to tell MF she was wrong. AG doesn't characterise it that way and just wanted to share other views.

@OvaHere

I'm a bit flabbergasted at someone who has so much difficulty hearing the word penis spoke out loud is a big advocate of allowing said penises to go wherever they want.

It's the gender spirits that go where they want - the penises just follow them around, like those little travel suitcases on wheels that people wheel behind them and get in everyone's way in the train station.

@Redshoeblueshoe

In Maya the Movie I want Damien Lewis to play Ben Cooper

Oh my.

This 'think tank' is shite. It certainly seems to be 'only think what we want you to think'. So, really a 'commanded think tank' or just a 'dumb tank' works too.

Yes, BC says AG was proselytising, if MF was (basically) and AG acknowledges this, though doesn't agree (?).

am I right when the claimant engages with you and your colleagues that prostletising when you do you're just giving another perspective?

amirite??? Yes, Ben, you are right on target.

Me too! I mean wtf. I'm bloody glad she's uncomfortable.

I wonder if this uncomfortableness is a large contributing factor as to why the ideology is accepted wholesale, especially in the US, and why there's a refusal to even consider what it means in practice.

I personally didn't like thd 'hands off my rights' campaign for similar reasons as AG. (Unpopular opinion on here maybe). Though I got why they used such an eye catching design. But I really think it would have made no difference if she had left a booklet of corporate looking text. I don't think there was any way to raise the consultation, and that there are good arguments against self id, without being deemed offensive.

Its a visceral and genuine disgust and discomfort at the thoughts being aired. On twitter ppl say things like 'eww a terf' or 'gross'. It sounds like AG is experiencing almost physical discomfort at being forced to confront these things. If feel for her on that (just reading notvwstching). It's a mad situation but there we are.

In that case, Maya should get to play Maya. And probably get a little cuddle off the Brave BC/DL who both definitely smell absolutely divine.

It's the gender spirits that go where they want - the penises just follow them around, like those little travel suitcases on wheels that people wheel behind them and get in everyone's way in the train station.

In December, BC says, AG and Miss McKenzie shared messages about EM 'organising opposition' against MF. They wanted to try the 'amplification technique'.

BC points out that this technique is where multiple people repeat themselves to appear more credible (roughly). EM and others were organising opposition to MF's VF status (she says). AG admits this. EM seems to think AG will be on board with this.

AG says EM was wrong, and AG didn't engage with this.

BC says AG had been participating in discussions that are not written down, and AG says no.

@tabbycatstripy

I think she might be crying.

Really?

I suppose this is an absolute attack on her personally held beliefs. I imagine anyone would cry at such an attack. I imagine Maya did too....

BC says amplification involves co-ordination. AG says yes. BC asks whether, if that was deployed, there must have been conversations happening at work. AG says perhaps.

BC asks whether AG really didn't speak to EM, and she says not. AG says she thinks EM's email is inappropriate. But didn't AG tell EM it wasn't appropriate? No, she didn't.

The hand is a bit nightmarish. I can imagine a trans activist saying it's a cliched clawing, 'witchy' or 'mannish' hand, like evil terfs probably imagine transwomen to have.
But you know, grow up a bit, is what I'd say to that.
And remember the trans activist images and slogans like people pointing guns and saying 'shut the fuck up, terfs', and then throw stones.

AG doesn't think these emails are significant. BC disagrees.

'I suppose this is an absolute attack on her personally held beliefs. I imagine anyone would cry at such an attack. I imagine Maya did too....'

Yes, it can't be easy for her.

God I wish I was watching this.
I assumed the FPFW leaflet was a homage to Saul Bass movie titles. Maybe green, white, violet would've been good colours, I dunno.

BC now talking about the Quantum Impact review that refers to some of these emails. He's basically suggesting the Advisory Committee (?) was biased against MF.