Maya Forstater Tribunal March 2022- Thread 2

[Sophoclesthefox]

Forgive the presumption, @Mforstater, but you’re probably busy in the pub right now, or passing on all of the fan mail to you legal team so I’ve made a new thread to carry on the fascinating discussion.

Round up your cats, rabbits and weasels, and let’s go!

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From thread one, here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4498167-Maya-Forstater-hearing-starts-Monday

Hi all,

Thank you so much for all your support: emotional, intellectual, financial, spiritual(!) reading the Mumsnet feminism board is where this all started for me!

The case starts tomorrow.

It is all online. If you want to watch you need to email the tribunal for a log in to [email protected]

It kicks off at 10am - the first bit will be "admin" between the judges and the lawyers working out the timings, issues and any reporting restrictions hmm.

Once that is all sorted the judge and the panel will go away to read (probably for the rest of Monday and all of Tuesday)

I will most likely give evidence Wednesday and Thursday.

@tribunaltweets will be tweeting the whole thing (assuming they get permission from the judge)

Links to papers will go up throughout the case at www.hiyamaya.net.

Any other questions I am happy to answer them (apart from the ones where I have to say "that is for the tribunal to hear"...)

I have made a spectators guide with FAQs etc here

Lots of love

Maya

@tabbycatstripy

Imagine being AG now. Literally defending making it easier for sex offenders to access women and children, and stopping women talking about it.

In separate news, BC just said penis.

Cross post.

Good. Much better than 'polite' language.

BC is pulling apart Mayas point re GC beliefs - safeguarding, women only spaces, bad men & AG is squiring but agreeding none of M's statements were offensive.

"I am very uncomfortable talking about these things" - she is in terror of the genderists coming if she doesn't hold the line. Its like she's being forced in court to think about these issues in a whole new way.

Also finding it hard to stay focused on work. Thanks for this thread.

There will be a film made of this court room, the drama is intense and the comedy is writing itself.

'Problematic' is a classic management weasel word.

'AG is laughing' just now on the Twitter thread, when BC brought up the safeguarding of children.

Bloody hell, that's finished me. Really.

She just described the FPFW leaflet as having 'the red, evil hand of the transwoman coming to get the rights of women'.

I’m sure you are uncomfortable AG but then I bet MF was a lot more uncomfortable at his you treated her

[off topic, but I've had some dealings with UK and US organisations in the international development sector and generally speaking, the people who work in them are not terribly intellectually curious in my experience. They're very focused on where the next grant is coming from, whatever is the current 'big thing' in development thinking (was 'education for girls' ten years ago, maybe 'direct cash transfers' now), and how they can promote their own corporate/charity brand in a space where all the big orgs are in competition with each other for profile and grants. Lots of the staff either hope to be heading for a career in politics in Washington or Westminster, or are on the long slide down from the same; development is just a 'nice thing' to be involved with while they polish their CVs, and there's not going to be a future for you in Labour or Democratic politics if you don't subscribe to the gender catechism. Most of the interesting thinking in international development is going on in much smaller orgs, in other countries or by individuals the sector regards as terribly difficult.]

Anyone got a link to the video they're talking about?

Fair Play for Woman brochure shows red evil hand of transwomen coming to take things away - AG
"it seems quite sinister"

Once you view the world through the lens of GI everything is transphobic..

@tabbycatstripy

She just described the FPFW leaflet as having 'the red, evil hand of the transwoman coming to get the rights of women'.

What is she going on about? I've never noticed that TW hands are evil or red. Then tend to be a bit bigger than mine, I supposed. In general terms. Useful for the opening of jars I hear.

He's pointing out how this interpretation is her prejudice. She is reading in something sinister when actually, what is happening is just women standing up for their rights.

@tabbycatstripy

She just described the FPFW leaflet as having 'the red, evil hand of the transwoman coming to get the rights of women'.

That's an interesting (and unique?) interpretation....

Hands off my rights:

She has just admitted that she doesn't know whether she is saying women can't participate in political debate. She shrugged.

Placemarking as I was following yesterday and had the devil of a job finding the trad again! Thanks for all the hard work!

I mean, it is a red hand. It is a bit evil looking. But this doesn't mean 'transwomen'. It means anyone who would remove those rights (anyone on the opposite side of the debate), and it is reasonable for campaigners to put a negative spin on that. It's a negative thing.

AG doesn't recall saying 'Is this the hill you want to die on.'

I'm a bit flabbergasted at someone who has so much difficulty hearing the word penis spoke out loud is a big advocate of allowing said penises to go wherever they want.

AG says she did convey to MF that this set of topics - litigating on who is a woman etcetera - is a poor fit with CGD.

BC going through a link to Paige's Story, that AG sent to MF (a transcript of an interview with Paige, a TW).

@OvaHere

I'm a bit flabbergasted at someone who has so much difficulty hearing the word penis spoke out loud is a big advocate of allowing said penises to go wherever they want.

Me too! I mean wtf. I'm bloody glad she's uncomfortable. Thank you Tabby and others for your sterling work, legends.

BC says she was sending this to persuade the claimant away from her views. AG says she was encouraging MF to acknowledge diverse views on the topic, and was not trying to dissuade her. BC points out MF has never said there are not diverse views, and is entirely clear that there are.

BC challenges the claim that AG wanted to educate MF on different views, knowing MF was already aware of that. AG says she hoped MF would nuance her messaging around her beliefs.

BC says AG was trying to persuade MF to back away from her beliefs. AG denies this.

BC pointed out that AG, too, engaged in discussion of these issues with MF, so she can't say CGD wouldn't engage on this issue, because she did.

@nauticant

Hands off my rights:

I was just about to post that.

FFS. The hyperbole!